I don’t think that Christian men should marry women who are politically liberal who claim to be Christians, because I don’t think that political liberalism is compatible with Christianity. But I’ll write some things that liberal Christian women tell me and you can see if you think it’s compatible with a Christian worldview, and a Christian view of marriage and parenting.
Some of this is based on a recent comment I received from a liberal Christian woman who accused me of being a racist (I’m darker than Barack Obama) and opposed to women succeeding (I have a longstanding record of supporting Michele Bachmann for President in 2012), etc. She also basically called me homophobic, because I oppose the gay agenda of sexualizing preschoolers with gay propaganda and because I think that children do best with a mother AND a father.
Her comment shows that the best liberals can do when debating policy is name-calling. Imperialist! Racist! Corporatist! Homophobe! Sexist! Bigot! Greedy! That’s what this woman did, and I encounter these Christian feminists a lot in churches.They learn their secular leftist worldview in the schools, and then they “read” the Bible by having feelings about what the secular leftists tell them to believe. If you ask them what the Bible says, they’ll say “it says that all religions are equal, that people should feel good, and that people shouldn’t judge other people”. This is what the secular leftists told them that the Bible said, and they believe it. And then they vote. And then they expect that Christian men will marry them for voting for policies that utterly destroy the minimal social requirements for Christian marriage and Christian parenting, (e.g. – she votes for things like no-fault divorce, etc.).
So I thought I would list out some of the things I’ve heard from women in churches over the years and you can tell me if you think that marriage to them would be a good idea (by marriage I mean real practical marriage meant to provide God with an ROI higher than he would get if the two people stayed single). Should a Christian man marry a woman whose entire worldview consists of slogans without any evidential support? Should Christian men accept the bare statement “I’m Christian” as though it proves that a woman has a worldview that is compatible with the Bible? Should the Christian man ask her to connect a Christian marriage plan to specific policies and laws, such as one might read about in Jay Richards’ “Money Greed and God”, Nancey Pearcey’s “Saving Leonardo”, Jennifer Roback Morse’s “Love and Economics”, or most importantly Wayne Grudem’s “Politics and the Bible”? Do “Christian” women have any idea what moral values, skills, policies and experiences are conducive to a successful marriage and the production of effective, influential Christian children?
According to liberal Christian women:
- conservatives are close-minded
- conservatives are oppressive
- morality is not objective, it’s relative to each person, or to different cultures
- God does not expect people to avoid sinning
- it’s wrong to judge others
- all religions are equally true
- there is no such thing as the Devil or Hell
- sinning is OK because God will still let unrepentant sinners into Heaven
- there is nothing wrong with abortion
- there is nothing wrong with the gay agenda
- opposition to Islamic terrorism is racism
- world war II was an imperialist, unjust war
- the best way to prevent a war is to disarm your own forces, withdraw to your own borders, and appease evil dictators by granting them concessions and abandoning your democratic allies to their aggression
- Christianity is about agreeing with people who do everything the Bible forbids, and making non-Christians feel good about their rebellion against God, so that they will like you
- conservatives are racists (FYI, I have dark brown skin and am the son of first generation immigrants)
- the best way to avoid being a racist is to obsess over the color of people’s skin and demand that people with different skin color be treated differently
- the desire of Christian husbands to keep the money they earn is greedy
- Christian husbands have a duty to have the money they earn confiscated by the government so it can be redistributed as the secular government sees fit to redistribute it
- Christian men are stupid and evil and cannot be trusted, which is why women should be able to count on big government social welfare programs
- fathers are not needed to raise children, and can be replaced with sperm donors and welfare checks
- it is bad for poor people to have to depend on their neighbors if they make poor decisions, because asking their neighbors for money and being accountable to their neighbors will make them feel bad – it is better if the government takes money from Christian husbands (in part) and then just gives the poor people the money directly, no matter what poor decisions they made – so that they don’t feel bad about making the poor decisions and they don’t have to change their poor decision-making
- the government should use the public schools teach children as young as 5 to have sex, use fallible contraceptives, and have abortions, and this teaching should be done using the taxpayer money collected in part from Christian husbands
- if an individual or a group has a lot of money, then the secular government should be able to take that money away to redistribute it – regardless of how hard they worked for that money
- taxing and regulating businesses will have no effect on a Christian husband’s ability to hold onto his job, or find a new one if he is laid off or fired
- the best way to create more jobs is by taxing and regulating businesses and raising tariffs and the costs of energy
- the best way to have an intelligent discussion with someone you disagree with is to attack their character and call them names that your teachers taught you to call them – reading good books by the people you disagree with and watching academic debates is a complete waste of time
- watching Michael Moore movies is adequate preparation for debating policy with conservatives
- watching the Comedy Network and listening to NPR are excellent ways to stay aware of the state of the world
- the secular leftist government can be relied on to use money from Christian taxpayers to protect religious liberty and practices like homeschooling
- economic policy can be determined through feelings and intuitions – as long as politicians say happy words and expressing good intentions, then the people they claim to care about are sure to come out ahead
- capitalism doesn’t create wealth, socialism does – just look at how much richer North Korea is than the United States
- churches have too much money and they don’t spend it on the poor, so they should be taxed and regulated by secular government
- private and parochial schools are only available to “the rich” so they should be abolished and all children should be forced to attend public schools, which are run by the secular government
- homeschooling should be outlawed because parents can teach their children moral values that are offensive and close-minded and make liberal special interest groups feel offended
- a baby isn’t a person until a woman decides it’s a person, and abortion should be taxpayer-funded
- children don’t need a mother and a father, and we should have policies that make people feel good about raising fatherless children – like welfare programs
- corporations “control people” by making useful products, and providing useful services, that people are free to buy, or not, depending on whether they think that those products and services are worth the money being asked for
- government doesn’t control people when it forces preople to buy health insurance that covers abortions, sex changes, drug rehab, IVF, or any number of things that Christians will never need and may even object to on moral grounds
- it is ok for Christians to vote for a secular government that reduces the costs of pre-marital sex by allowing taxpayer-funded abortions and taxpayer-funded welfare payments, because the God of the Bible wants people to have premarital sex more easily and at a lower cost
- conservatives support the death penalty for people who disagree with them on religion and morality (not on a criminal matter, this woman called herself a Christian and literally thought that conservatives wanted the death penalty for people of other religions and sexual orientations – no criminal charges or anything)
- the death penalty is mean and has never been shown to have a deterrent effect on violent crime rates in peer-reviewed research
- Christian women can best impress Christian men by showing no understanding of the needs of young children, and by having no plan to produce effective/influential Christian children in a challenging secular environment
- the best way for a Christian women to understand the needs of men and children is by focusing on her own education and career and avoiding any peer-reviewed research that addresses the needs of men and children
- marriage consists of the woman working full-time and treating her husband as a roommate and treating her children as pets who are dropped off at the day care – preferably government-run day care – and eventually moving the children on to government-run schools
- conservative men, especially the Tea Party supporters, are sexist and don’t want women to be successful – especially the ones who want Michele Bachmann to be President
- if a man asks a woman to read anything on economics, science, philosophy, etc., then he is oppressing her because she should be free to construct her entire worldview based on her feelings, intuitions and peer expectations
- whenever a woman is asked how she has prepared to deal with a husband and children, she should turn the question around and ask what men and children will do to serve her and make her happy
- government subsidies for unmarried women who raise fatherless children doesn’t cause more women to have babies out of wedlock, and out of wedlock babies do not increase poverty or criminal behavior
- corporations who sell products and services to people who are willing to buy them of their own free will causes poverty and criminal behavior
- the best way to prevent a mortgage lending crisis is for government to lower interest rates for extended periods of time and then impose restrictions on housing construction, driving home prices higher, and then to force banks to make loans to unqualified applicants who don’t have to report their citizenship, report their income, or even make a downpayment
- the best way to respond to the policy question about whether high tax rates are bad for Christian families is to ask the questioner how much money they personally give to charity
- God is more impressed by people who give their money to voluntarily homeless alcoholics than by people who give money to sponsor an on-campus academic debate where university students will hear arguments for and against God’s existence, God’s character, and what God has done in history through the person of Jesus
- the best way to learn about marriage and parenting is by listening to feminist teachers, not by reading Jennifer Roback Morse and Laura Schlessinger
- the best way to learn about economics is by listening to socialist teachers, not by reading Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams
- the best way to learn about what the Bible says about politics is by listening to secular teachers, not by reading Wayne Grudem and Jay Richards
- the best way to learn about foreign policy is by listening to draft-dodging bleeding-heart hippy teachers, not by reading Frank Gaffney and John Bolton
- developing a Christian worldview is best achieved by believing whatever ignorant, inexperienced teachers in government-run secular schools tell you to believe so that you can get an A – this is called “critical thinking” and conservatives don’t do that
- it’s more important to be liked by your liberal teachers and inexperienced, foolish peers than to conform your behavior and worldview to what the Bible actually says
- if a Christian woman engages in global warming alarmism, recycling, veganism and yoga then Christian men will think that she is moral and suitable for marriage and parenting
- Church is a place where you sing songs and meet people, have happy feelings, and get comfort for the uncertainties of life and death
- men are just as likely to marry and have children with a 50% tax rate, a 15% unemployment rate and a 20 trillion dollar debt as they are with a 15% tax rate, a 5% unemployment rate and a 5 trillion dollar debt – what really matters is whether they are in love or not
- men are just as likely to marry and have children with a no-fault divorce law and 90% sole-custody awards for the woman as they are with at-fault divorce laws and mandatory shared-parenting
- if you pay poor people $35,000 a year in cash and benefits for not working, then they will try as hard as they can to get out of poverty
- affirmative action is a great idea and it is no problem at all that 60% of all undergraduates are women, because men are just as willing to be husbands and fathers when they don’t have college degrees or jobs
- God doesn’t want us to do anything effective to advance his causes and his concerns or to defend his moral values and moral duties – God just wants us to have happy feelings and to be liked by others, no matter what they believe and what choices they make
- the purpose of having children is to let them do what they want so they are happy, and not to make them effective and influential for God
- it’s wrong to call your children “garbage” even if they later look back on you with love for spending so much time parenting them effectively and are accepted to Harvard and Yale and are set to have an enormous influence for Christ – that’s bullying and God doesn’t like parents bullying people into Harvard and Yale (he prefers poets and ballet dancers)
- the best way for mothers to deal with children is by handing them to strangers and then assuaging the guilt from child neglect with excessive permissiveness coupled with excessive spending on material rewards and suppression of the father’s desire to discipline and lead the children toward greater effectiveness and influence for Christ
- defending the faith is something that only a few people do if they have that “spiritual gift”, but other people have the spiritual gift of reading Dan Brown, Stephanie Meyer and J.K. Rowling novels – both choices are equally pleasing to God, though
- if a Christian man cares about keeping the money he earns for his current or future family, then he is selfish and only cares about himself
- patriotism, national honor, advanced weapon systems and a large military are all ways to encourage aggressors to attack other nations
- peace talks, appeasement, betraying your allies, weakness, moral equivalence, coddling terrorists captured on the battlefield, and a weak military causes aggressors to not attack you or other nations
- legal firearm ownership causes violent crime rates to increase
- multiple victim public shootings never occur in areas where weapons are banned (for the law-abiding), like shopping malls and schools
- slavery was invented by Americans and has never been practiced anywhere else or in any other time
- slavery is only practiced by whites against blacks
- slavery was abolished first by non-whites, and then only at the very end by whites
- the American military is largely a force for evil in the world
- man-made catastrophic global warming is real and needs to be countered by imposing a communist government to control industry, because the Earth has never been warmer than it is now, certainly not during the Medieval Warming Period
- America is imperialist because Americans spend their blood and treasure liberating other countries from tyranny like South Korea, France, Kuwait, East Germany, etc. and then instead of occupying those countries they leave, and then airdrop supplies (The Marshall Plan) or foreign aid or massive private donations
And then they wonder why men do not think that women are suitable for marriage or children. I think it’s an act of treason against God for authentic Christian men to marry Democrats, or even to give them the time of day.
The point of this post is that today I am seeing a lot of women complaining about men not wanting to marry them, and going on to have children out of wedblock as an alternative (and then they collect welfare and throw the children in day care and public schools – i.e. – child abuse). The thought never occurs to them that men HAVE thought women and marriage and children through, and they have decide that many women are simply not qualified morally or spiritually for the tasks of marriage and parenting. Men decide this based on their knowledge of the needs of men and children, and women’s lack of preparation to meet those needs, and women’s unwillingness to sacrifice their own interests to meet the needs of others. What many women, Christian and atheist, seem to believe is that men should fall in love with them with a complete disregard for their worldview and preparation for marriage and parenting. And what they mean by marriage and parenting is not self-sacrifice and service to men and children, with the larger goal of serving God. They actually mean a combination of postmodernism, moral relativism and narcissistic hedonism. They think that this is what marriage provides – a perpetual state of bliss where they do whatever makes them feel good moment by moment and men and children just celebrate that. Rah rah day-care! Rah rah sex-withholding! Rah-rah wealth redistribution! That’s apparently what men and children should expect from a woman in a marriage situation. And of course, God, if he exists, exists only to guarantee happy feelings and cannot judge or interfere or impose moral obligations on the woman.They think marriage is fairy-tale narcissism. Even the wedding is a day of expensive attention-getting narcissism.
A woman’s relationship with God, and the amount of thought and effort she puts into it, is a valuable window into how she views her relationships with men and children. If she reads a lot and takes on a lot of obligations to understand God and to serve him in effective ways (apologetics, politics, economics, foreign policy) then men should think that she will treat relationships with men and children the same way. But that takes time to assess. Men need to keep their hands off of women when dating/courting in order to assess her real views. You can’t assess a woman for marriage and parenting based on her physical appearance, weight and sexual skills. You would be surprised how little Biblical worldview capability there is for young attractive women, how little practical thinking about money and education, etc. has been done, how little planning has been done beyond the desire for wedding pictures and baby pictures, and how little is understood about how men and children impose obligations on women. God is better than men and children are. She won’t treat men and children well if she doesn’t treat God well. If she projects her feelings onto the Bible, and resents its plain meaning, and rejects the obligations it places on her, then she isn’t going to treat husbands and children any better. If she responds to God’s character by rejecting his differences, his judgments, and his expectations, then she isn’t going to respond well to the those same concerns in men or children.
A nice physical appearance and the willingness to hook-up on the first date are not qualifications for marriage and parenting. And they are not qualifications for serving God either. And women who soft-pedal immorality like abortion and gay rights in order to be liked by leftists are not Christians. Christianity means something. It doesn’t mean having happy feelings and being liked and projecting your goals and beliefs onto God. Men – don’t complain if you are shallow enough to think that you can test a woman by having fun with her. Going on trips and having fun experiences is not courting. Make her read hard books, make her do hard things, make her write essays on men, marriage, parenting, apologetics, science, politics and economics. Demand that she give you 10 scientific arguments from the peer-reviewed literature for God’s existence. Demand that she explain how laws and policies challenge the goals of a Christian marriage. Judge her on moral grounds at every opportunity. Load her up with moral obligations and tasks. Because that’s what she’ll be expected to do in a marriage.
I think that the liberal “Christian” commenter probably places herself more of the good end of the moral scale than the bad end, but I just want to be clear – I consider don’t consider her a Christian or even a good person. It’s not that she is deliberately evil, she is just incredibly ignorant on every subject, having imbibed her views from secular leftist teachers like a trained seal who is rewarded with fish by her trainer. She hasn’t read anything outside of schoolwork, she just parroted her way to good grades. The harm comes when she tries to pass herself off as a Christian to gullible Christian men who will be swayed by her looks and youth and physical contact instead of her knowledge, wisdom and experiences at practical things – like running a business, or evangelizing atheists in her workplace. Men need to have their goals for love, marriage and parenting clear, and to understand what questions to ask women to detect their real suitability for marriage and parenting. This woman simply has no capability to do the job. She hasn’t looked into these issues at all, she just accepted what the people around her believed. When you scratch the surface, she isn’t a Christian at all – she just uses frilly God talk to put window dressing on her own narcissism, vacuity and conformity.
By the way, the quickest way for her to join the reality-based community would be to buy and read Thomas Sowell’s “Intellectuals and Society”, which I just finished last night. Thomas Sowell is the official economist of the Tea Party movement, and, of course, he is black. As is the other great Tea Party economist Walter Williams. I would also recommend Wayne Grudem’s “Politics and the Bible”. He writes theology, which is something that these liberal Christian woman have never looked into. And of course they will never have looked into apologetics either, so they won’t have read William Lane Craig and J.P. Moreland’s “Philosophical Foundations for Christian Worldview”. After all, they have feelings and intuitions and social expectations to guide them. Who needs truth?
- New OUP book links premarital sex and promiscuity to poor mental health
- Where have all the good men gone, and why aren’t men marrying?
- Do men have a responsibility not to marry feminists?
- What does the common practice of withholding sex reveal about women?
- Why are so many British feminists converting to Islam?
- Why do some women tolerate jerks as boyfriends?
- Why do women flock to movies like Switch and Eat, Pray, Love?
- Women should read “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”
- Arlemagne’s post on the dangers of sentimentality in relationships
- Is Mark Driscoll afraid to hold a woman accountable for her own choices?
- 12-year-old girl (and her mother) sues father for grounding her… and wins!
- The Wintery Knight’s greatest fears about the future
- How feminism made women unsuitable for marriage and parenting
- Does being a virgin before marriage affect marital stability?
- How to communicate requirements to a Christian woman during courtship
- How feminism made women unsuitable for marriage and parenting
- Why men should refuse a woman’s offer of casual sex
- How Christian women can make Christian men marry without using sex appeal
- John Piper’s questions to ask before you get married
- Does a man’s decision to marry negatively impact his service to God?
- The rules for friendship and courtship between Christians
- What Christian men want from Christian women… in paintings!
- Why Christian men should be chaste
- Should Christians marry non-Christians?
77 thoughts on “Should Christian men marry Democrats who claim to be Christians?”
Great post, WK! Very thorough.
Oh I just the love the calm before the storm :D
Btw, kudos for actually writing out that huge mammoth list of bullet points that liberal Christian women believe! ;)
Even the tags are pretty funny…hehe :)
I have long said the Demokratic party and Christianity are incompatible because their party platform calls for all that is unholy. Therefore, a solid Christian should never consider marriage to a Demokrat.
Your list demonstrates the worldview of the liberal who has no idea what Scripture teaches. Those are the types to avoid.
There are Christians-in-name-only (CHINOS)and there are liberal women who distort Christianity to fit their social causes.
It is a sin to believe what the Democrats believe, so it is a sin for a Christian to marry one.
Spoken in true self-righteousness, my Christian brother!
I could write one that is even meaner against men. But, I’ll leave that for Mary and Mara to do.
I might do that, Wintery.
But I can’t get past the assumptions and false starting points made in your titles alone.
Some Christian men ARE Democrats.
So why wouldn’t they marry women who are Democrats?
I realize that many belonging to the uber-Right Christian bunch can’t understand that a person can be both a Democrat and an actual Christian. But just because an uber-Right can’t grasp the concept doesn’t mean they are right in their perception.
The problem is that NO Christian should be Demokrat. How can they biblically justify a party platform which calls for abortion, promotes same-sex unions, promotes theft from workers to give to non-workers, supports just about everything the Bible is against?!?
Your definitions are as creative (and meaningless) as your definitions, Mr. Glenn.
Well, you have to deal with specific policies that Democrats support. And not just social policies, but fiscal policies and even foreign policy.
For example, I oppose running the national debt up by 5.34 trillion dollars during the Pelosi years (2007-2011). And I also oppose the policy of treating terrorists as though they are lawful enemy combatants and trying to try them in non-military courts.
Think of it this way. Democrat policies caused the recession, which puts my job in doubt and undermines my ability to get married and give to charity. My Christian plan is being hurt by their decision to drive up home prices with home building regulations and then to make the problem worse by forcing banks to make bad loans based on political correctness. That’s one way fiscal policy impacts me.
And even more than that, think back to Bill Clinton refusing to do anything about Islamic terrorism during his eight years in office when we where attacked nearly a dozen times at home and abroad. When you appease evil, the cost of them doing evil goes down, and you get more evil. In fact, this is exactly what led to the second world war – Hitler did not believe that anyone would ever stop him, after he annexed Austria, the Sudetenland, and re-militarized the Rhineland, etc. The left-wingers were unwilling to stop him when he broke the terms of his treaty and we got a world war out of it. The same thing happened with Clinton and 9/11. And 9/11 cost me thousands of dollars in my portfolio that I could have used for a family or for donations. So weak foreign policy impacts my plans to serve God by taking on certain enterprises that I think would benefit him.
This is the kind of thinking that Christians don’t do because they often don’t have a comprehensive worldview. Sometimes it helps to pick up books like Wayne Grudem’s “Politics and the Bible” and Thomas Sowell’s “Intellectuals and Society” in order to get a bird’s eye view of the world. When you do that, it’s easier to make a plan to serve God, and to identify the obstacles that are in your way. Restrictions on free speech and school choice are obstacles. Exploding debt, inflation and high unemployment are obstacles. Being blown up by terrorists and the impact of war on my fortune are obstacles. What I am seeing a lot of today is that many women are voting for policies that make an effective/influential Christian marriage more and more difficult, either because of reduced in-family resources, reduced liberty, reduced education choice, higher taxes, higher unemployment, higher debt, more rish of terrorism/war, etc., and they are voting this way for emotional/social reasons. And they are coupling this incompetent voting with an emotional, selfish view of marriage as something that will “work out” (meaning make them happy and fulfilled), totally without any plan to solve the problems their voting is creating.
I’ve written before on how the choice of mate is being made not based on any ability to KNOW these problems and SOLVE these problems, but on the basis of appearance, emotions, spontaneity, peer-pressure, pop culture etc. I hear this all the time when Christian women are telling me that moral rules are too “strict”. One even rejected the research I showed her showing that chastity before marriage creates a better quality marriage, with more stability. Her reason? She said that research was too strict, and that rules like that didn’t apply to love. This is what Christian men are dealing with. They are voting to undermine marriage and parenting, and becoming even LESS competent to deal with the challenges they are creating rationally, and choosing men who are incapable of facing the challenges they are creating with their bad voting.
What does that have to do with the existence of Democratic Christian men marrying Democratic women?
I don’t know.
I think it would just be plain easier for you to stick with, “Conservative policies help, Liberal policies hurt, and here is the evidence” rather than get all into who should marry whom.
Even going into tirades about third wave feminist influence is preferable to titles that divide people into Christian and Pseudo-Christian catagories.
I’m sorry to offend you. I think you are awesome. That one woman made me so mad though, I just lost my temper. And when I get mad, I write things that are mean.
“Democrat policies caused the recession, which puts my job in doubt and undermines my ability to get married and give to charity.”
So you’re not getting married because you fear for your job? That’s also your reason for not being charitable? Total victim mentality, WK, and, I might add, really lame.
No, I’m still going to be charitable, and I have to be a lot more careful about getting married. I have to be realistic. Marriage is a big responsibility, and if I can’t afford it, then I shouldn’t take on that responsibility.
I think Mara is onto a good point here. I do think it is useful to mention the who should marry whom aspect because some Christians don’t seem to connect politics with their marital strategy. But it doesn’t need to be gender-specific because both sides need to hear this. The content of this post is good, but it should be titled “Should politically conservative Christians marry politically liberal Christians?”. That way it counts for both sexes. The answer is clearly a resounding NO because they see the world too differently and have completely different ideas of how Christianity is applied to life.
I would also agree with you that liberal politics are incompatible with Christianity. Some who are Christians and who subscribe to liberal politics are not really Christians at all, but there are also genuine Christians who just don’t get it or who have been sufficiently brainwashed to not see this. (Trust me, I’ve met them.) This makes them unsuitable for marriage to politically conservative Christians. I agree with Mara that we can’t assume up-front that because someone’s politics is crummy that they categorically aren’t Christian, particularly if we don’t know them.
So since you are correcting me, you are more righteous than me?
Dude, don’t bite. ;) It’s useless.
That was probably one of the coolest posts I have ever read!
Interesting. There’s not much dissenting opinion here so it seems, anecdotally anyway, that your readers seem to agree with your argument.
I take my hat off to you, Wintery. This is the best and most thorough summation of liberal stances I’ve ever seen. I can’t wait to link it to a group of liberal friends of mine and await the angry replies!
I think, like most sensible people, they are too busy to read through such drivel.
It’s the sensible people who agree with it!
Should Christians marry conservatives?
According to conservatives:
Starting wars with other countries is good, especially when based on completely untrue accusations of them owning weapons of mass destruction.
It is bad for the government to help people who have made poor decisions, we should instead punish anyone who makes bad decisions (since according to the Bible, people who make bad decisions cannot ever be forgiven, ever!).
Stopping goverment subsidies to single mothers won’t in any way cause young, pregnant woman to feel they cannot cope with having a child, and have an abortion instead.
The government should stop supporting single mothers, since then clearly that would stop all women having pre-marital sex and getting pregnant, and wouldn’t at all make abortion a more attractive option.
We should support capital punishment, since noone innocent has ever been wrongly sentenced to death, and human beings are just like God, and every right to take away human life when they feel like it.
It’s perfectly fair for the poor to pay just as much tax as the rich, even if they are working harder than the rich.
We should completely support private schools, since there are easily as many poor children as rich children in private schools, and they don’t in any way give rich children an advantage, simply because their parents have more money than others.
A child grows up best in a family with a mother and a father, therefore we should punish those children not fortunate enough to be in this situation.
Universal health care is bad since people shouldn’t have a right to free medical care when in desperate need, that’s ridiculous!!
We should deny the majority scientific consensus on global warming, and not seek to invest in renewable energy resources and more energy efficient appliances – since we will always have a limitless supply of oil and energy efficiency is bad.
All children, if pushed hard enough, are clever enough to get into Harvard and Yale, and we shouldn’t expect anything less from our kids.
Regarding true Conservatives:
They do not start wars and only enter wars to protect the USA. They do not want foreign entanglements.
Conservatives do not want the government being our nanny:
The government has no Constitutional authority to help people who make bad decisions. The Bible NEVER says those who make bad decisions can’t be forgiven, so you made that up.
There is no Constitutional authority for supporting single mothers, let alone pay for abortions.
Capital punishment for murder is ordained by God in Genesis after Noah stepped off the ark; this makes it applicable to all people in all times. There is no evidence of anyone ever being executed who wasn’t guilty. Sentenced, yes – executed, no.
One’s income level should not determine one’s tax rate; every level should pay the same percentage. Otherwise you have class warfare. Most of the poor do not work hard, which is why they are poor.
I’m not clear what you mean about private schools. Real conservatives leave those to private institutions to run and keep the government out. Private means private.
A child is not punished by refusing adoption to single people or homophile couples. A child would be punished by forcing him in to such arrangements.
Universal health care is a misnomer, as can be seen by looking at the socialist countries having it. Nevertheless, the government has no Constitutional right to be in the health care business.
Man-caused global warming has been proven to be false, a “crisis” generated by liberals in order to further enviro-nazi goals and drag everyone closer to socialism. More than 31,000 American scientists, including over 9,000 with Ph.D.s have signed a petition stating, “There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” http://petitionproject.org
Conservatives know that different people have different educational abilities, contrary to your claim that we think everyone is capable of getting into college, let alone liberal bastions such as Harvard and Yale.
Perhaps you would care to name one or two true conservatives so we can see what kind of individuals you are referring to?
I want you to name some Democrats that are true Christians so we can know they exist.
I haven’t found any true conservative politicians, but I know lots and lots of true conservative people – all Christian of course, because that is the true Christian worldview.
I think this is one of your best posts WK; good job. I was going to mention that you could replace woman with man and the post would still make sense, but you mentioned in replying to mcspinster that you’re leaving mara and mary to handle the man. lol
Do you care if use your bullet points as statuses on Facebook? :) I’ll h/t you.
Yes, please do use them. I get frustrated because I want to get married, but the Democrat worldview of so many church women is basically anti-marriage and anti-parenting. What use is it for me to bring home the bacon if, by her ignorance and bad voting, she turns it back into a pig? If church women are too ignorant and too narcissistic to think through marriage and parenting, and instead just select policy based on their emotions, on the rhetoric of hope-changey politicians, and based on peer-pressure and pop culture, then they shouldn’t expect to get married. I am bringing A LOT of assets to the table. Financial, worldview, knowledge, chastity, wisdom, etc. I put a lot of effort into preparing more marriage and parenting. What have they done to prepare? It seems to me that they have taken steps to UN-PREPARE. They are LESS QUALIFIED than they would be if they had not been influenced by left-wing teachers, left-wing media, left-wing culture, left-wing friends, at all. They have, by their own choices, made themselves incapable of marriage and parenting, though their own free decision to be ignorant and arrogant about the tasks of marriage and parenting. They reduce marriage and parenting to narcissism and selfishness, and then proclaim themselves as being prepared, and lament the dearth of qualified men. The qualified men are right here. Where are the qualified women? Not in the feminized church, that’s for sure.
Show me a Christian who reads apologetics and politics and I’ll show you a man.
Thanks! I’ll use them.
Show me a Christian who reads apologetics and politics and I’ll show you a man.
Yeah, I do think the ratio would favor men; I’ll definitely give you that. In some cases, I think men choose women based on feelings and this post is just as much for them as women. The men that do choose that way are most likely Democrat and this post is for the critical thinking conservative woman who shouldn’t marry the narcissist man! :) It can go both ways.
That you can change out man for woman is a quibble and nothing more. The quibble does not undermine your argument.
Wintery, if the desire to get married is not followed by actually getting married, then the desire is NOT to get married. And you should stop blaming everyone but yourself for this. Seriously? A man doesn’t blame his situation on others.
Well, I desire to sell my sports car and buy an F-15 Eagle, but you know what? I can’t afford it. And I can’t afford marriage in a socialist welfare state.
You can’t afford it?
No, it’s not that. It’s that you don’t have anyone you love. If you did, you wouldn’t care what kind of state you lived in.
Yes, that’s how women think. If a person is in love with a woman, and wants to marry her, then that desire will somehow provide for his family, regardless of his employer’s corporate tax rate, his income tax rate, regulation, energy taxes, government spending, property taxes, etc.
Just so you know, I have been in love, and have had women who wanted to marry me, and I’ve made it incredibly hard for them simply because I don’t want to work for 30 more years in a welfare state paying off trillions and trillions of dollars in debt because of overpaid, unproductive union employees who sit around doing nothing, holding up pre-made signs and rioting.
If you lowered the personal income tax rate to 15% flat for income under 100K, cut the deficit to 0, and reduced the national debt to 0, I would be married right now.
I can’t believe I’m actually agreeing with McSpinster on something. Hell must have frozen over.
The bottom line, WK, is that you are not married because deep down inside you don’t want to be married. You can blame it liberals, feminists, high taxes, etc. all you want but those explanations don’t hold any water.
People get married all the time in far worse economic conditions than we have here in the United States. In fact, Christians got married in the ancient Roman Empire, and even had children, right up to the point that they and their entire village were exterminated.
In my situation, I have to pay an egregious amount of money every month in child support and had to rebuild my finances completely from scratch at age 32 thanks to a treacherous and greedy ex-wife. But God has restored everything I have lost and I live in great financial prosperity even in my circumstances.
I do believe that everyone has the right to live life as they see fit. The problem with you however is that you do not appear to be happy in your solitary single life, as you always seem to be fixated on your single status and the problems with women.
The only women you ever consider marrying are unattainable women like Michelle Bachmann, instead of a nice young lady at your local church. There are plenty of Christian conservative women out there, yet you have somehow convinced yourself that 99.9% of all women are radical feminist liberals.
That’s like saying that I don’t own an F-15 Eagle, because deep down, I don’t want an F-15 Eagle. It’s ridiculous.
I have never met any single women in cities I have lived in that have read so much as ONE Lee Strobel book, and certainly nothing like William Lane Craig.
I have never met any single women in cities I have lived in that have read so much as ONE Thomas Sowell book, and certainly nothing like F. A. Hayek.
I have never met any single women in cities I have lived in that have read so much as ONE Gary Habermas book, and certainly nothing like Mike Licona.
I have never met any single women in cities I have lived in that have read so much as ONE James Dobson book, and certainly nothing like Jennifer Roback Morse.
I have never met any single women in cities I have lived in that have read so much as ONE Phillip E. Johnson book, and certainly nothing like Stephen C. Meyer.
And to think otherwise is to be naive. They are not qualified for marriage and parenting. They haven’t thought through what is required, and they haven’t prepared for it. In fact the liberal ones have actually voted for policies that undermine marriage, undercut men, and put children at risk. You can’t marry someone who makes decisions based on their emotions and their need to be liked by their peers. And that’s all that’s going on with most women in churches. That’s it!
77% of young, unmarried women in this country voted for Barack Obama. Explain that. I want an explanation. Even if I met some younger and unmarried version of Michele Bachmann where I live, there would still be ENORMOUS obstacles because the laws, policies and budgets of the land are being written by secular socialists voted in by these 77% of young, unmarried women.
I saw plenty of women walking around at the EPS conference in Atlanta. They were going to all the Licona seminars and everything.
In fact, I even saw women walking around who were WRITING books!
But perhaps the problem is that you are looking for a female version of yourself. It is possible to be a strong Christian without constantly reading apologetics books. Sounds alien, I know, but most Christians I have met are not like us. They don’t enjoy debating others and keeping up with all of the latest scientific and sociological research. For the life of me, I can’t understand how anyone could not be completely obsessed with this stuff, but apparently people like me are a small minority of the human race.
But the good news is that these other Christians are phenomenal in other ways. Some of them are terrific musicians, others constantly serve the poor and visit the sick in hospitals. Others visit people in prisons, or help widows and orphans out. Some of them spend time living in third world countries preaching the Gospel. The body of Christ has many members. It is a good thing.
The important thing when evaluating a potential spouse is not to see how many apologetics books they have read, but to instead evaluate the content of their character. That is truly the key to having a good spouse. Reading can always come later.
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I don’t live in Atlanta. And in any case, those women were MARRIED already. Married women are much better than unmarried women because they actually have to deal with men and children up close, so they learn what to do.
The problem is not inside my head. The problem is the policies that 77% of young, unmarried women voted for. Are the conservative Christian women doing anything about these policies? Do they have a plan for marriage and parenting? Have they prepared themselves? Are they active politically to strengthen marriage and men’s ability to be protectors, providers and moral/spiritual leaders? Do they have a comprehensive worldview that understands the needs and roles of men and children?
Well, for what its worth, Paul does say in I Corinthians 7
 Now concerning* the betrothed,* *I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as *one who by the Lord’s mercy is *trustworthy.  I think that in view of the present* distress *it is good for a person to remain as he is.  Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife.  But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman* marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.  This is what I mean, brothers: *the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none
So there you have it. Paul (expressing his personal opinion) recommends the single life. And the single life does have many advantages. Having been single (twice) I did enjoy many aspects of it. Overall though, I prefer marriage.
And I do agree that you should not marry a liberal feminist woman. In fact, I’ll go ahead and say from experience that it is far better to be single than to be married to the wrong person.
1 Cor 7 is EXACTLY what I have been following all my life. I keep running into 30-year old women who have never even thought of the issues I raised in the original post above. And I want to know WHY. What have they done to encourage men to become husbands and fathers? What have they read on economics, apologetics, war, same-sex marriage, no-fault divorce, day care, firearms, education policy, energy policy, etc.? Probably the most alarming thing I see is how women are consistently advocating for restrictions on business, higher corporate taxes, and more spending on “the poor”. Don’t you see? They don’t really want husbands, children or marriage. They undermine it by voting with their emotions – they want to feel good and be liked by others, so they advocate take things from hard workers and employers to distribute to “the poor” or to the environment or whatever is trendy that their friends will approve of. And criminals and terrorists are also “poor” so we can’t punish them or kill them.
Let the liberal women (77% of young, unmarried women – the clear majority of young, unmarried women) get their act together and stop complaining. They are causing their own messes with their incapability to understand the incentives on men and interests of men. They want to remain ignorant of the consequences of their voting and then blame men for not giving them what they want agter they have voted to prevent men from taking the traditional male roles – protector, provider, moral/spiritual leader. Newsflash! Men don’t marry and become fathers if someone has taken half their paycheck and effectively castrated them with restrictions on their liberty to be husbands and fathers. Let the women marry the state, if they keep voting to make it bigger and bigger government and smaller and smaller men.
Did you actually read that woman’s comment? That’s who is running the show – and most Christian women agree with her views of politics. And the ones who disagree with her don’t make a priority to correct her.
//And I want to know WHY.//
The reason why most single women vote for the democrat party is 1) Women are emotional and make decisions based on emotion, and 2)women feel a huge need for security and want to be taken care of (whether the feminists admit this or not).
It USED to be that a woman’s security came from her husband and marriage. But marriage is off-putting to many women because they feel like they have a subservient role in the marriage.
But the problem is women still want to feel secure, and the easiest way to accomplish this is by voting for bigger government and policies that increase their sense of security.
Studies have shown that when women are allowed to vote, the government they are voting in invariably becomes bigger. See this link for just one of those studies:
It’s interesting to note that when women become married, they tend to vote the other way, because now their security is invested in their husband and family and they want the government to confiscate less of their property.
The essential answer to your question is that single women vote democrat because they are selfish human beings (just like men) and they act upon a greater need for security and protection than men do because of their biology and emotional makeup.
The real answer to all of this, of course, is to place one’s security in God and depend upon Him for all of your needs to be met. But an unconverted human being is incapable of doing this, and they turn to other (inferior) sources.
But to take this basic facet of human nature and decide to never married is quite an unusual stance. You might as well extrapolate your logic and not have any relationships with anyone at all, because we are all flawed with the sin nature and make selfish decisions all the time.
Jesus told us to love our neighbors and not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. God wants us to be engaged with the world, not hiding away from it in order to continually protect ourselves from its innate selfishness.
I’m not saying that you have to get married in order to do this, just saying that your reasoning for avoiding marriage is flawed. I’d have no problem with it if you were genuinely happy as a single person and felt that’s what God was calling you to be. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Yep, I agree with wgbutler777 and McS on this. :)
A woman doesn’t have to have read Craig, and Sowell, and Meyer *up front* for you to consider her a potential spouse. Just befriend her tell, her about them, and see what happens. If her eyes light up and she wants to hear more, then Bob’s your uncle! If her eyes glaze over, then move on.
I also can’t believe that there are NO politically conservative, evangelical single woman with a love for truth in a reasonable radius of your place of abode. It would probably help if you went to Church. :-P At the risk of stating the obvious, all those married women you think are so wonderful started out single too!
Yes, the economy is up to maggots, yes there are nasty political factions trying to undermine the family. But if you want to be married (singleness is good too, if that’s what you want), find a good woman, go out there, and show them how it’s done! You and her go and be a picture of Christ and His Church and lead others to Jesus with your marriage and your words. Wouldn’t that be awesome? There are never 100% guarantees in life, saving death and taxes. And even then, there are uncertainties in the area of taxes. :-S But if you and your spouse are well-prepared and committed to the Lord, it’ll be worth it. Of course marriage is not for the faint-hearted, but knights take risks for goodness and truth, right?
Great post and much appreciated ( You went all- out). I think a lot of people missed the sublime point of the Democratic / Feministic / Political (its about being a real disciple and having character).
I think a “lay it all out” for men would be useful and appreciated.
You know, WK, you can’t have it both ways: either women should reflect and glorify the feminine (which you are constantly putting down for being, well, not rationale or “male” enough for you) or they should be more like men (which you equate with being “too feminist.”
Frankly, I seldom hear you praise anything about women; it’s all about what they “should be” but never what they actually are.
No wonder you’re not married!
Women can be feminine and still vote for marriage-friendly policies. Look at Michele Bachmann. She’s feminine, she homeschooled and she votes for marriage-friendly policies. And when she is President, everyone will vote for her policies.
She will never get the nomination, WK.
Please define the “glorify the feminine”….
Is it the “personal autonomy” that is glorified by the media and the feminist movement ?
I think that many woman forget that within the last century that woman were not allowed to vote, hold office, own property etc ( “they were considered irrational and hysterical” – that is was is stated !!! Btw, dont kill the messenger !!
With that being said, I am pretty much okay with accepting that the hysteria and psycho behavior that comes with feminine ( it come with the territory). However, a woman of virtue will recognize that in herself and rely/trust on her husband/partner in those moments vs. making excuses for irrational behavior that is devastating and carries HUGE CONSEQUENCES that wreck relationships, homes, and children. BTw, I have only ran across 3 women in my life who admitted to a double standard for women and their own irrational behavior ( they were very self aware and knew it was a emotional response and they would get over it. Btw, these are 3 of the MOST INTELLIGENT women I have met in my life).
In review of Proverbs 31 which is “my ideal” for a woman of virtue and I am holding out for (I have highlighted the main points… Like anything YMMV).
10 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than vjewels. 11The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.
12She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life……
25iStrength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.
26She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
27She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:
29“Many jwomen have done kexcellently, but you surpass them all.” 30lCharm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised. …….
As God setteth the solitary in families, how are you praying about this?
I also have to agree with McSpinster in this one item – you haven’t found a woman you love or you wouldn’t care about financial situation, etc. I met my wife when I was 6 months from getting out of the Army and it became a long-distance relationship for those 6 months. I spent all my savings to buy a car to see her four times (10 hour drive) before getting out. Then I found a minimum wage job to get some money while looking for something better. Two months later I got a job with the P.O. and that was pretty good. I still wasn’t able to save anything because I put it towards an apartment and slowly began furnishing, but within a year I was laid off and working two part-time jobs to pay for my apartment and my new car (a cheap VW Beetle) because my other car fell apart. That year we got married and I was flat broke to where her parents paid for my tux. We camped for our honeymoon. But we struggled together, living pay day to pay day, and ended up two years later getting a job with Air Traffic Control and moved from Columbus to Chicago area. Cost of living there made us still pretty much pay day to pay day, very little savings, but we were able to buy a small house no down payment due to my military service. We had two kids. Finally, after ten years of marriage we started to have extra money to do things and then had to empty our savings for oral surgery and orthodontics for our son whose teeth were growing in wrong and distorting his face.
I could go on but I think you get the point. You don’t wait until finances are there if you really love the person. You work together at it (and we decided the wife was to be the homemaker rather than employed outside the home. She did make lots of crafts to sell at the local theme park to help with income).
As I have said to you before, your idea of the perfect woman to marry doesn’t exist. Your focus is too much about what you want versus what she might want. She has to be all about you rather than you being about each other.
That’s why you’re not married.
No, I’m not married because of the policy reasons I stated.
That’s a cop-out. I’ve been married for 35 years because we learned how to live within our means and with what the gov’t allowed. Let me tell you, there were plenty of political problems back then too!
You don’t wait until finances are there if you really love the person. You work together at it…
That is just not true. I love my wife completely, yet we waited a little over a year to marry. Why? Because I wasn’t going to burden us financially just so we could be married. Finances are a huge deal! If you can barely make it on your own (like my case) why would I put another person on my budget? That is just asking for trouble, not only financially, but also emotionally and physically.
I wouldn’t have been able to take care of the one I loved, which is a major part of love – taking care of the one you love. We were and are still in love, and much better off since I waited to marry her once I had a more financially secure job. I think it’s very wise to wait until you both know you are ready. Ready doesn’t mean perfect, otherwise there wouldn’t be any marriages.
People have married for hundreds of years without the finances at the time. As I said, you grow together while you work together. If you have a job, you have finances.
I was addressing your statement, “you don’t wait until finances are there if you really love the person.” That’s not true. You can’t measure love like that.
I think couples that love each other, obviously, don’t have to wait until the finances are there. If you want to live paycheck to paycheck, fine, do it. I don’t think that is the smartest thing to do (it’s not), but I will not say that means the couple loves each other more. The couple was really into the feelings.
My wife and I are critical thinkers and we did not want to live paycheck to paycheck because it puts a lot of stress on a marriage (generally, not in all cases) and we didn’t want to depend on others financially. Are we rich? Heck no. However, we don’t live paycheck to paycheck and we have emergency funds ready for emergencies.
Not all people in love prepare like we did. Did we want to run off and get married? Heck yes (because we were waiting for each other *wink*wink*), but we put feelings aside and used our “noggins” instead of our body parts. :)
You can’t base love on your readiness to “sacrifice” clear thinking. Love is not measured on your willingness to jump in recklessly on a marriage. I’m not condemning anyone that does that because people have and will rush into marriage; that’s their choice, more power to them. This is the U.S. and you can do that. Also, I know there are successful marriages (like yours) from people that didn’t care if they were financially ready for marriage. Cool. Seriously, that’s great, but you can’t say that someone doesn’t love their fiancee or hasn’t found the right one because he or she is being cautious and planning ahead. Being prepared does not mean you’re trying to be perfect.
Jared, I really appreciate you explaining what I was trying to say more clearly. What does it matter if you love someone if homeschooling becomes illegal and they start teaching your children nasty things at age 5? What does it matter if parents are arrested for telling their children Christianity morality? Already in the UK Christians are unfit to be foster parents. How long will it be until Christians are unfit to be parents? And you know that the secular leftists think about these things because they are already happening in places like Sweden and Germany and even Canada.
If a Christian woman wants to marry me, then let’s hear her plan to fix these problems. I would at least like to read her blog and hear what she does to support conservative political parties.
I’ve got a specific plan I am trying to work here and there are so many challenges. Money is needed to get around the interfering overbearing secular leftist state. They do not want me to raise Christian children, and I have to overcome those challenges. If I met a woman who prepared herself and took that plan and those challenges seriously, I would marry her. But what I see is more liberal women who don’t know and don’t care. They talk about love as if it guarantees somehow that God is going to be served by our marriage based on what’s in the Bible, but then they vote to increase my taxes and restrict my options for education the children. That’s not going to work.
Had I been in a position to be prepared for marriage, I would have certainly wanted to do so. But while I was in the Army – at the meager pay it was in the early 1970s – most of my pay went to flying lessons to prepare for a future outside of the Army, and I saved money for airplane mechanics school. However, that savings went out the window to buy a car to be able to travel to see my new girlfriend-soon-to-be-fiancee, and for transportation when I got out. So at 23 I had a car an no money and then found a minimum wage job to start life. Doesn’t leave much for savings if one wants to be married within any time soon. And then after a year to be laid off and working two jobs with wedding date approaching was certainly stressful, but we discussed it and determined that me not being the lazy type that I would earn enough to support us no matter what I had to do, so we determined we could start on a shoestring. Otherwise we would have had to wait at least a couple more years.
Close relationships lasting that long too easily lead to intimacy – it is difficult not to. If you really love someone, you shouldn’t say, “Well, it will be a couple years until I get a nest egg for us.” That is time that can’t be replace. Finances are not the end-all and be-all. Hard work and discipline can oversee any challenges, and it is a lot better to work together for that few years than to be unmarried wondering if you will ever get together.
I think too many people are afraid not to have luxury and want everything right away. I know too many young couples who start their marriage in deep debt because they have to buy a big house and furnishings immediately, let alone everything else. Kids want NOW what it took people like me 30 years to get because the need for instant gratification.
When you have to send your kids to the government schools you just deprogram them every day when they get home – like we did before we finally home-schooled. You just have to pay closer attention to what they are being taught.
Marriage isn’t for sissies who want everything to be perfect, and raising a family isn’t for sissies who are too worried about the gov’t. Let God be your guide and trust Him. Step out in faith and damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. IF the gov’t feeds you to the wolves, so be it.
Glenn, I admire what you’ve done, the point of this post is to get Christian women to be more realistic about marriage, and how it is affected by politics.
No problem. I’m passionate about marriage, so I like discussing it. Generally, it seems, that people rush into marriage, whether financially, emotionally, etc., without really knowing the other person.
I know it won’t sound like a long time, but I dated my fiancee’ for 2 years and 9 months before we were finally married. We had to be prepared financially and mentally. I had to know her, which meant: were we compatible on issues that would be vital to a marriage. By dating her, I found out that we were quite compatible (the only thing we don’t really agree on is the death penalty…not a huge deal lol) not only on issues, but also in recreational activities. As an added bonus, she’s quite fetching. :) I learned a lot about her during that time because we talked instead of constantly trying to seduce the other one.
It seems to me that couples just don’t talk about deep issues before the marry. John Piper’s “Questions to ask before you marry” is an excellent resource for those that are dating.
I’ve blogged on it and worked through it with women. Usually within the first few dates.
Glenn, your love for your wife is obvious and does you credit. I’m glad we can agree on something!
And I agree with both Glenn and McS at the same time! Will wonders never cease? ;-)
Glenn, Mary: I can feel the love flowing. Thank you.
:oD Yes, my wife is a real pearl. And guess what; when I met her I was 22 and had been in the Army 4 years, and she had no concern for politics, disliked, knew very little of the Christian faith (she was raised Lutheran, confirmed, etc, but says she really wasn’t a believer until she met me and heard me talk of the Faith all the time), was just 3 weeks from starting college (having graduated high school two months earlier), and really had no idea about life other than wanting to be a wife and mother. Her dad was an engineer and was really disappointed when she dropped out of college after two years to marry me. But our first date was spent mostly talking about life and I learned enough about the type of person she was that I pursued her the rest of my two-week leave, and by then end of that time I knew she was the one for me. For the next six months we had 4 short day-visits, but daily letters and weekly phone calls. You can learn quite a bit about each other in those types of communications, which no one participates in any more.
We married two years to the day we met. W.K. would have found her unacceptable, but I knew her character and taught her politics, helped her mature in the Christian faith, she took an interest in apologetics, and now shoots like Annie Oakley! She is the most compassionate person I’ve ever met, and was a wonderful mother raising our children. She has no degrees, no career other than wife and mother, but she is loved by many, many people from every church we’ve ever attended as we’ve moved across the country.
W.K. seems to want a woman who is already exactly what meets his qualifications, while I got to know a woman and her character and realized she had a heart that could learn about all these issues, etc.
W.K., you’re missing out.
I think Wintery Knight brings about a very good point in regards to the state education of children, marriage, and choosing the right partner.
How many wives/women who are “Christians” would take a stand for Christ and go for fines, state imprisonment, loss of home /family vs. allow the state/federal programs dictate sexual privacy / education / birth control for their children (get the picture ?)
It take a firm commitment of the both spouses / family to “take a stand” and not deny Christ. I fear most American Christians families would buckle under the pressure if push came to shove.
Yes, and one might ask the same of husbands/men who are “Christians” that would take a stand. Just making the point that this is not exclusively a “woman issue”. For the record, I’ve had to turn down interested men who are Christian, but simply too weak on such things. Others of the same variety just get freaked out by my strongly-held views and I see the interest fade each time I open my mouth. [wry smile]
I assure you all that Mary is very reasonable and passionate at the same time. Even when we disagree. I sometimes even egg her on to get her to dig in her heels against me. Women should take a lesson from Mary if they want men to like them just for who they are. I have deep antipathy to women who say whatever I want to make me like them, but Mary isn’t like that. She likes evidence, reads complex books, deals with people who disagree with her. She likes to debate with people who disagree with her. So you know her views are solid. That’s an excellent thing for a woman to be.
Thank’ee, WK. :)
Which one of you has a bigger crush on the other??
Touch’e… There are very, very few real cross carrying and obedient to Christ disciples either male or female (It is a “hard” path but well worthwhile).
In view of the scriptures, God deals with individuals and remnants (often obscure and shunned by the “religious” crowd). This is evident when after the feeding of the five thousand – only 12 remained after Christ intentionally pushed them off with “eating His flesh”.
In review of my dating – I havent met a Christian woman who practices abstinence, possess virtue, or actually have basic knowledge of the scriptures and the meaning of salvation (it is a change into the likeness and moral image of Christ vs. go to heaven to live in a mansion and reaping / sowing).
In review, the gospel of Christ in America has been “soft peddled” to the point of impotence and is the reason for the state of your nation today ( the body of Christ has not exhibited Christian behavior that glorifies God and hence the current state of darkness).
In addition, mental assent is easy vs. denying oneself and obeying Christ in all matters. I believe there will be a severe separation in the American church on suffering and the children rights ( like the Early Roman church went through)
I agree with you, Mike.
I learned in my single days, that if you encounter a single woman who reads the Bible, tithes and gives to the poor, goes to church every Sunday morning and Wednesday night, sings in the choir, speaks in tongues and prophesies and dances in the Spirit, etc, etc … and who therefore, by all rights, should be solid a conservative…
,,,,and yet… she’s a flaming liberal instead….
*** CHECK HER SEX LIFE.***
Because in EVERY case where I got close enough (either as a friend, or dating her) to find out what was really going on in the girl’s life, it turned out that she was sexually corrupt. In the present tense, not just in their repented-of past. If they were liberals, they were fornicators. It was that simple.
That doesn’t mean that conservatives don’t sin sexually. You certainly can comb the ranks of the church and find conservatives who are fornicators. Thing is, you won’t find any liberals who AREN’T. Not in my experience.
I’m not the only one who noticed this. The Clinton administration did a poll once, where they discovered that a person’s sexual behavior was the strongest statistical predictor of how they’d vote.
Does the Left have a political interest in promoting sexual corruption? Hmmmm…..
This comment is pretty harsh. I think you should take out all of the condemnation and just say something like this:
“Just because a woman is outwardly a Christian in many superficial categories, e.g. – reading the Bible, singing, going to youth group, etc., it DOES NOT MEAN THAT SHE WILL MAKE A GOOD WIFE.”
I have an entire set of questions I use to test women, and most of them hate it, because they hate being asked questions and having to study and talk about their beliefs.
Having said all that, there are a couple of women I know who pass all of my tests with flying colors, and they are both single. One of them gave a pro-life talk at her church recently, and is reading Nancy Pearcey’s book “Total Truth” and wishing for Jay Richards’ book “Money, Greed and God”. She sends me articles on foreign policy and complains that the USA is not hawkish enough under Obama. The other one is reading Jonathan Morrow’s “Is God Just a Human Invention?” and she gay a talk on same-sex marriage. She reads Thomas Sowell, Wayne Grudem, and anything else she can get her hands on. I could go on and on and on about how superior these two women are.
The trouble I find is that pastors look at women in the church and think that if they look pretty and have jobs and show up in church then they are good for marrying. I’ve written against that idea as well:
I think that you should be more gentle in your comments, too. Think of the few good Christian women when you write and realize that they are reading as well, and need to be encouraged. That’s what I try to do.
I don’t think I’m being harsh at all. From my experiental frame of reference, I think I’m toning it down a lot. However, thou art the moderator.
The few good Christian women ought to clearly understand that they are not included in my comments. It should be obvious that “I’m not like that”. Re: above — if she’s not a liberal, I”m not talking about her.
As to this:
I have an entire set of questions I use to test women, and most of them hate it, because they hate being asked questions and having to study and talk about their beliefs.
My wife and i both had a set of test questions, and we went through all of them on the first date. “Do you actually tithe 10%?”, “How do you vote and why?”, “Will you actually save sex til the weddding?”….”What sex acts will you NEVER do even with a spouse?”….”How many kids do you want?”…
We were both very blunt, and neither of us hated it or got offended it. Indeed, it was quite a relief to get the nonnegotiables off the table right up front.
I was convinced I’d marry her that night; it took about 6 months to sell her on the idea.
Oh man, those are good questions! What a great wife you must have. What a romantic you are!
You know, I don’t see why I am silly to expect that women will WANT to answer these questions. They ought to want to study them and answer them. They ought to want to be different and prove themselves. But many get intimidated by obligations, and some of those women are even resentful. But marriage isn’t a fairy tale. Men should expect to be loaded up with obligations, and so should women. It’s about self-sacrifice and cooperation.
You may find this thread at Alte’s of interest.
You’ll note in my first post comment (I made several), I say “most” women who X, did Y, whereas here I said “every.” The difference, and I chose my words carefully, is that “every” one ****whose story I know****, was that way. I did know some Christian liberals whose personal life I wasn’t privy to.
Anyway…. have fun. You don’t have to post this on your site, but I wanted you personally to see the Alte thread.
Awesome quote from that article:
“My advice for my sons and my fellow brothers is this: find and marry a woman who is zealous about her faith, a zealotry that is demonstrated by her actions. For an obedience and submission to Christ portends well for her ability to follow your lead in marriage. Granted, such women may be hard to find in this day and age, but if a fellow dares to marry, and I think some fellows should,** her worth will be far more than rubies.”
Thank you so much for your comments! They are quite excellent.