Knight and Rose Show #74: Tyler O’Neil: Religious Liberty and Free Speech

Welcome to episode 74 of the Knight and Rose podcast! In this episode, Wintery Knight and Desert Rose welcome Tyler O’Neil from Daily Signal to discuss the state of religious liberty and free speech in America. If you like this episode, please subscribe to the podcast, and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We would appreciate it if you left us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Podcast description:

Christian apologists Wintery Knight and Desert Rose discuss apologetics, policy, culture, relationships, and more. Each episode equips you with evidence you can use to boldly engage anyone, anywhere. We train our listeners to become Christian secret agents. Action and adventure guaranteed. 30-45 minutes per episode. New episode every week.

Episode summary:

Wintery Knight and Desert Rose welcome Tyler O’Neil to address the state of religious liberty and free speech in America. They discuss how organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center demonize conservative Christians by equating them with extremists. O’Neil explores the SPLC’s influence on corporations, government, and law enforcement. He critiques this bias against Christianity and encourages Christians to stand firm in the public square.

Outline and transcript

Here is a transcript of the show provided by TurboScribe AI. TurboScribe AI allows you to translate the transcript into many, many different languages. You can also export the transcript into many different formats, with optional timestamps.

Episode 74:

Speaker biographies

Tyler O’Neil is the Senior Editor at The Daily Signal. He is the author of two books: “Making Hate Pay: The Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law Center” (2020) and “The Woketopus: The Dark Money Cabal Manipulating the Federal Government” (2024). A graduate of Hillsdale College, he is an Eagle Scout, husband, and father. He frequently covers topics like free speech threats, government weaponization against conservatives, and cultural issues, often testifying before Congress on these matters—such as in December 2025, where he highlighted attempts by leftist groups to silence him.

Wintery Knight is a black legal immigrant. He is a senior software engineer by day, and an amateur Christian apologist by night. He has been blogging at winteryknight.com since January of 2009, covering news, policy and Christian worldview issues.

Desert Rose did her undergraduate degree in public policy, and then worked for a conservative Washington lobbyist organization. She also has a graduate degree from a prestigious evangelical seminary. She is active in Christian apologetics as a speaker, author, and teacher.

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Music attribution:

Strength Of The Titans by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5744-strength-of-the-titans
License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Bad news for liberty in Canada and Finland, but good news in America

I saw quite a few interesting stories about free speech and religious liberty in the news this week. It’s always a shock to me to hear some Christian leaders say that Christians shouldn’t care about policy and politics. Some even say “Jesus doesn’t care about politics”. I can only think that these people are naive and have small life plans. If a Christian is serious – i.e. has life experience and a big life plan – then he or she will care about policy and politics.

Here’s the first scary story from Finland, reported by Tyler O’Neil in the Daily Signal. Tyler is actually going to be our guest on the next episode of Knight and Rose Show, which is coming out this Saturday morning.

He writes:

Attorneys are warning about the “severe chilling effect” of the Finnish Supreme Court’s ruling against Päivi Räsänen, a Christian member of Parliament who long faced hate speech charges for tweeting a Bible verse.

The Supreme Court upheld Räsänen’s acquittal for posting a Bible verse in 2019, but the 3-2 majority convicted her, along with Lutheran Bishop Juhana Pohjola, of hate speech for expressing their beliefs on Christianity and sexuality in a 2004 church pamphlet.

[…]“In order to protect the dignity and equality of homosexuals, it is necessary to exclude Räsänen’s statements from freedom of expression by interpreting them as punishable hate speech directed at them [homosexuals],” the prosecution wrote.

Here’s the second article about one such country – Canada. This is from the Catholic Register:

Bill C-9, the Combatting Hate Act, advanced to the Senate tonight. The House of Commons adopted it with a 186-137 vote at third reading.

[…]Campaign Life Coalition (CLC), the political arm of the Canadian pro-life movement, was one of many groups that mobilized Canadians opposed to the amended C-9 by executing a petition campaign and by hosting a press conference on Parliament Hill on Feb. 13 alongside 4 My Canada, CitizenGo and Campaign Québec-Vie.

David Cooke, a Christian pastor and CLC’s campaigns manager, warned that “with the passage of Bill C-9 in the House, Christians and pro-life advocates will almost certainly face an entirely new level of hostility, as the door swings open to actual persecution under a cloak of supposed legality.”

OK, now for some good news about a country where Christians have wise in their political activities, and benefit from good policy.

This is from the Tyler O’Neil in the Daily Signal again:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, federal health agencies and the White House under President Joe Biden pressured social media companies to censor speech that contradicted the federal government’s narrative, but two Republican attorneys general secured a consent decree Tuesday that will prevent the government from returning to that “Orwellian” strategy.

[…]The consent decree notes that the federal government “unlawfully pressured, coerced, induced, and encouraged major social media platforms to censor their posts” about the pandemic, the reports about Hunter Biden’s laptop, and the 2020 presidential election.

[…]The consent decree, which will end the litigation from Missouri and Louisiana, binds the surgeon general, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency from taking any actions “to threaten social media companies with some form of punishment (i.e., an adverse legal, regulatory, or economic government sanction) unless they remove, delete, suppress, or reduce, including through altering their algorithms, posted social-media content containing protected free speech.”

The decree will last for a period of 10 years, well past the next administration.

Well, how did we get this amazing consent decree? We got it from the voters who voted for Louisiana Attorney General Liz Murrill and Missouri Attorney General Catherine Hanaway. It was these two ladies who challenged the federal government to stop threatening social media companies unless they censor free speech that is critical of government policies. That’s how we get good policy – we vote for it. We advocate for it.

By the way, Rose and I did an entire episode to about Christians taking politics seriously entitled “Does Jesus Care About Politics? Why Policy Matters“. Please check it out.

And please check out our newest episode with Tyler O’Neil on free speech and religious liberty when it comes out tomorrow. After that one, we have an episode on health care policy, where Rose and I compare American health care to health care in other countries, and propose a policy that will make American health care much better.

Terrell Clemmons and J. Budziszewski: Why smart people embrace delusions

Terrell Clemmons was a recent guest and guest co-host on the Knight and Rose Show. I noticed she has not one, but FOUR new articles on the Discovery Institute Science and Culture website. I waited until all 4 had been published to write about the series. It’s about the intellectual journey of J. Budziszewski from nihilism back to Christianity. He is a professor of government and philosophy at the University of Texas at Austin.

Our regular host of the Knight and Rose Show (Desert Rose) loves Jay’s books. She is using them for her D. Min thesis, which is about natural law. Jay actually has a new book out about 30 popular beliefs that are completely false. The book explains why people believe delusions and also offers suggestions for avoiding delusions.

The first article in Terrell’s series is here. It talks about the new book:

In 30 succinct chapters, Budziszewski addresses 30 delusions related to virtue and happiness, politics and government, family and sexuality, God and religion, even human nature and reality itself. He doesn’t polemicize for “sides” on the controversial subjects nearly so much as help us think through falsehoods clouding our current milieu.

As soon as I read what the book was about, I wondered if he was going to talk about how people form their beliefs based on what is easy, convenient and popular with their social groups. And he does, as we will see.

Here is the second article. This one is about Jay’s spiritual journey:

Terrell asks:

After all that, how did you come to profess Christian faith once again?

And here is part of Jay’s answer that I liked:

I hadn’t lost my faith by a rational process either. I just thought I saw through it. In my milieu, all the smart people didn’t believe in God. And I unconsciously wanted to believe I was one of the smart people. There were many other things that pushed me away from faith, but that’s one example of my own motivated irrationality. Another is that I’d committed some sins. I didn’t want to face God, so I stopped believing in him. That’s irrational, too.

I’ve now spent over 27 years in the IT industry, including internships and summer jobs. I have met so many people who grew up in intact Christian homes, some who went to Christian private schools, who abandoned their Christian faith the minute they hit college. When I ask them what the arguments and evidence were that changed their minds, it is almost universally two things. 1) I wanted to be seen as smart by the new social group, and 2) I was away from home for the first time and didn’t want to follow moral rules. That’s it. I mean, part of it is that their entire Christian upbringing had never been grounded on a stitch of evidence, but those are the two reasons I get the most often.

Here’s the third article. This one talks about how people suppress moral knowledge, which is something Jay did during his lost years.

Terrell asks:

Speaking about things that are inherent to being human, you’ve also written that “the longing for truth, for purity, for lightness is indestructible,” but that at the same time, “the fear of truth, of purity, and of lightness is also very strong.” How do you see this play out in your observations of human interactions?

And here is the part from Jay’s response that I liked:

Freud talked about the suppression of libido — his term for the sexual drive — and all the crazy things that he thought happened to us when libido is suppressed. But I don’t think he knew the first thing about it. Because the drive I have in mind — this inclination to know the truth, especially the truth about God — may express itself in indirect or distorted ways when we suppress it. By suppressing it, I mean, for example:

  • I don’t want to know the truth about God because I would have to change.
  • I don’t want to know the truth about God because I would have to admit that I was wrong.
  • I don’t want to know the truth about God because it puts me to shame.
  • I don’t want to know the truth about God because he’s so good that it scares me. I don’t want him to be that good. I don’t want him to love me that much, more than I love myself.

We do suppress the desire for the truth, and the consequences of suppressing the desire for the truth are far more potent and powerful than the consequences of suppressing libido.

One of the Bible passages that I found so amazing as a kid growing up in a trash communist country was Romans 1. Romans 1 is the kind of chapter that has the ability to yank a kid out of the atheistic communism he is surrounded by (parents, teachers, government, etc.) and propel him to move to the reddest state in the United States of America. By any means necessary. You should read Romans 1 and make everyone you know read it. It is the “magic glasses” that turns the ship around. Whether you agree with it or not, it describes the way the world really is.

But aside from that, I just want to point out that many famous atheists agree with Jay about the suppression of truth. I wrote about a bunch of them in this old blog post from 2011. Wow! That was a long time ago.

And finally, the fourth article. This is about how morality is related to public policy and government.

Terrell asks:

On your blog, you have called wokeness “status signaling,” as opposed to “virtue signaling.” What did you mean by that?

And this is the part of his reply that I liked best:

I saw a pair of bumper stickers on the right and left side of a back bumper. One said, “Save the laboratory animals,” and the other said, “I’m pro-choice, and I vote.” The driver wanted to save the little bunnies, and not have them hurt, for example, by having cosmetics put in their eyes for testing. But she didn’t want to save the little humans. There wasn’t much penetrating thinking about right and wrong there, but there was a very sharp awareness of what was acceptable in her milieu and of what attitudes would give her approval among people in it: “The people that I associate with would never say it’s wrong to have an abortion, or that it shouldn’t be a woman’s choice. That’s just not done.”

You can see this in Austin, a sort of ideological hothouse populated largely by woke professional classes. They’re all imitating each other and imitating each other’s attitudes. It’s about conformism. It’s much more about that than about conscience.

My friend Bonnie told me recently that she never met a person who believed more in “engineering belief”. I engineer my own beliefs and the beliefs of others by making choices about what to consume, and meddling in what other people consume, too. So, for me, I don’t watch anything on TV, streaming services, and new movies (unless they are war movies like Midway (2019) and Greyhound (2020). I was forced to watch the first Star Wars movies as a kid, but I’ve never seen any of the new ones.

On the other hand, I fill my head with good stuff like Shakespeare, Jane Austen, free-market economics and military history. If I want to build up another Christian, I buy them the books that I want them to read, like Thomas Sowell books, and then I give them rewards for reading them. Or, I take them to places and do activities where they have a practical experience of gaining knowledge or solving a problem. This is how I build up their resistance to the sorts of social pressures that Jay talked about. And it works on other people. One of my friends loves Salvo magazine, so I bought her 25 back issues because it’s her birthday this week. I’m trying to level her up.

I think that when it comes to anything in life, if it is important to you to believe it, then it should be important to you to show your work. And before you can show your work, you have to do your work. If you want to change your mind about something, the best thing to do is to read the best books you can understand and watch or listen to debates. And test it for yourself. That way, you can explain how you arrived at your beliefs. That process almost always makes you resistant to the surrounding culture. And that means you are one step ahead of the people who just believed whatever was easy and convenient.

Unfortunately, most people who grow up in Christian homes don’t get the idea that the process of doing your work is important. We have to fix that.