Dennis Prager features a lot of discussions about male-female relationships on his show, particularly during the male-female hour. I think this is one of the parts of his show that I really like best, because he knows what he is talking about.
He did a two part series a while back on 1) male sexuality and 2) what women should do about it within a marriage.
It is an axiom of contemporary marital life that if a wife is not in the mood, she need not have sex with her husband. Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom.
First, women need to recognize how a man understands a wife’s refusal to have sex with him: A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him. This is rarely the case for women. Few women know their husband loves them because he gives her his body (the idea sounds almost funny). This is, therefore, usually a revelation to a woman. Many women think men’s natures are similar to theirs, and this is so different from a woman’s nature, that few women know this about men unless told about it.
This is a major reason many husbands clam up. A man whose wife frequently denies him sex will first be hurt, then sad, then angry, then quiet. And most men will never tell their wives why they have become quiet and distant. They are afraid to tell their wives. They are often made to feel ashamed of their male sexual nature, and they are humiliated (indeed emasculated) by feeling that they are reduced to having to beg for sex.
When first told this about men, women generally react in one or more of five ways…
He then explains the 5 ways that women respond to this.
1. You have to be kidding. That certainly isn’t my way of knowing if he loves me. There have to be deeper ways than sex for me to show my husband that I love him.
And this is the common mistake that some feminist women make because they think that men are just hairy women with no feelings and desires of their own that are distincly theirs. In the past, all women understood how men are different than women, but today almost no younger feminist women do. In fact, many younger women today struggle with the idea that there is anything different about men that they need to learn. The only thing that they need to know is what makes women happy, and that it is everyone else’s job to make women happy, so that women can then behave nicely (whatever that means). Younger feminist women today often think that they only need to be in touch with their own feelings – and that men and children simply have to get used to the idea that they have no right to make any demands on a woman – she has no moral obligations in a marriage.
Here’s another from the list:
4. You have it backwards. If he truly loved me, he wouldn’t expect sex when I’m not in the mood.
I think this whole problem of feminist women not understanding men, and of demeaning male feelings and values, is very serious. In my opinion, there is a whole lot of work that needs to be done by feminism-influenced women in order to fix this problem. The best place to learn about this is in Dr. Laura’s book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”. It’s like an application form for a serious relationship. Sex is one thing, but a serious man should insist that a woman take him seriously – and take marriage and children seriously. Pre-marital sex, having fun, getting drunk, and going out, etc. are not the right foundation for a relationship that is defined by the need for mutual self-sacrifice. There is no such thing as a “feminist” marriage – marriage is not about selfishness and playing the victim.
I actually had a conversation with a Christian woman once who said that women should not be obligated to do things that they didn’t feel like doing. I asked her if men were obligated to go to work when they didn’t feel like going. She said yes, and acted as though I were crazy for asking. I just laughed, because she didn’t even see the inconsistency. Many young feminist women today just don’t understand men, and they don’t want to understand them. They just want what they want and in the quickest way possible. Understand the needs of men and children, or how feminist-inspired laws discourage men from committing to marriage and parenting, are of no interest at all.
Here are eight reasons for a woman not to allow not being in the mood for sex to determine whether she denies her husband sex.
He then explains the eight reasons.
Here’s one of them:
7. Many contemporary women have an almost exclusively romantic notion of sex: It should always be mutually desired and equally satisfying or one should not engage in it. Therefore, if a couple engages in sexual relations when he wants it and she does not, the act is “dehumanizing” and “mechanical.” Now, ideally, every time a husband and wife have sex, they would equally desire it and equally enjoy it. But, given the different sexual natures of men and women, this cannot always be the case. If it is romance a woman seeks — and she has every reason to seek it — it would help her to realize how much more romantic her husband and her marriage are likely to be if he is not regularly denied sex, even of the non-romantic variety.
This makes the point that many young feminist women today do not really understand that they are, in a sense, capable of changing their husband’s conduct by the way they act themselves. I think that younger feminist women seem to think that their role in the relationship is to sort of do nothing and wait for the man to serve them. But relationships take work, and they take work from both participants.
At the end of the article, Prager makes a general point about women that I think needs to be emphasized over and over and over:
That solution is for a wife who loves her husband — if she doesn’t love him, mood is not the problem — to be guided by her mind, not her mood, in deciding whether to deny her husband sex.
I think that is an excellent question to ask a woman. What does it mean to love a man? I was forwarded one amazing response from a Calvinist woman recently in which she explained several things that she wanted to do to meet a particular man’s needs and make his life easier, and what she was prepared to do now in order to show him that she really could do handle the role. I think that she said these things out of sympathy and understanding of that man, and that was very encouraging.
But I think that kind of seriousness about taking of someone else as they really are, self-sacrificially, is rare. And it makes me wonder what people think that marriage is when they get into the church and make vows that, ostensibly, will require self-sacrifice. What do women think that marriage is? What is the goal of it? What makes a marriage successful? Why do women think that men marry? What do men get out of marriage? What are the woman’s responsibilities to the man in a marriage? I think these are questions that men should ask women. And the should not be satisfied with glib answers. Men should demand that books be read, that essays be written, that skills be developed, and that the woman’s life experiences show that she has understood what will be expected from her and why.
I think that it’s a good idea for men to try to get married, but they should be careful to make sure that the woman they choose is sensitive to their needs, just as men ought to be sensitive to the needs of women.
20 thoughts on “What does the common practice of withholding sex reveal about women?”
Marriage without sex is just a wildly expensive and needlessly complicated friendship.
Sex outside of marriage is a sin, but withholding sex after marriage is also a sin. Sadly, some people sin on both sides of the wedding, having sex to win someone over before marriage and then using it as a weapon after marriage. Or they have some odd arrangement some call “choreplay” where a husband gets rewarded for doing things around the house. My memory fails me now, but it seems like there is a term for exchanging goods and services for sex.
It is unfortunate that most pastors don’t preach carefully through 1 Corinthians 7:1-5. It couldn’t be more clear. It teaches that sexual immorality is a real temptation. Therefore, neither spouse should deny conjugal rights to the other. I realize that feminists will freak out about the wife not having authority over her own body, but note that the passage says the same thing about the husband not having authority over his own body but yielding it to his wife. It is wholly balanced because you are one flesh. To withhold sex is to deprive one another. It should only be done by mutual consent and for a time. How many people withholding sex do it unilaterally instead of by mutual consent? And are they doing it so they can pray more? The passage is clear that Satan will tempt us and that we lack self-control, which is why God is giving us this guidance.
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1 Corinthians 7:1–5 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
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If men are willing to give their lives for their wives and children, and we are, then why is it so difficult for women to give their bodies to such men?
And the sad thing is that probably 95% of women in the churches will not understand this article at all. And that is because their “pastors” are essentially “women” in their conduct, faith, and lack of courage. If they don’t even have the courage to preach hard against Hell, abortion, sodomite “marriage,” and divorce, then the women in the pews get a feminized view of “men.” And the few men who are still going to church, to their detriment, will too.
And, all of this, BTW, is why China and Russia are going to kick our butts in the next war. Well, they already are! China beat us with a virus last year. Easily.
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Simp, eunuch males, not men!!!!
Women have a high sex drive but most women are not attracted to their husbands. They couldn’t wait to undress for the alphas of their youth but they couldn’t marry them.
They had to marry what seems to them the female equivalent of a ugly obese woman with bad smell. Would you be enthusiastic about having sex with such a woman or would you find any excuse not to do it? All the rest are only rationalizations.
The problem is not women. It is sex before marriage.
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I agree. I also think that men need to choose women with good conservative politics and knowledge of apologetics. Then there is a real relationship and the woman has more of a connection to the man.
True and the science confirms that nobody has better sex than conservative evangelical couples.
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I haven’t been surveyed, but yes.
Is there anything more romantic than bonding with your wife spiritually over a point of Christian doctrine or practice and then bonding with her physically? There’s nothing sexier than a woman who is strong on moral truths and duties. Who doesn’t want to make out with a true warior-esse of the Faith???
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Women also seem to be weirdly disconnected from their own sex drive often. For example many women will date and even marry men that they actually aren’t attracted to, a concept reasonably foreign to most men. For these women it’s just not a priority.
I am leary of a wife giving a husband “duty sex”, if she’s not properly aroused the act can be uncomfortable and she can eventually learn to be repelled by it. Most men want to please their wives and if he picks up on the fact that she’s just “getting on with it” and doesn’t actually want him, they’ll feel quite badly as well.
Part of the solution is I think for women to take some responsibility for their own sex drive. The same way I think most men tend towards an aggressive sex drive that needs to be harnessed, I think many women tend towards whatever you’d call a sin against chastity that leans towards coldness. There are many exceptions of course, but I really would argue that an indifference or hostility to sex isn’t proper chastity at all.
I have a relative that has a disease where he never actually feels hungry. He has to force himself to eat just so he doesn’t starve, but it shows that something unhealthy has happened to him. I think there are many women who are like this about sex. Or the more irritating paradox , more than capable of getting revved up by men they have sex with but pursuing relationships with men they don’t feel that way about for “practical” reasons.
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“Duty sex” is a drag, so it helps if the wife is actually into it. That said, the “red pill” guys – both Christian and secular — have a saying for men: Rule #1 – be attractive. Rule #2 – don’t be unattractive. I know I’m the guy who quoted 1 Cor. 7, and it definitely applies, but it is also a loving thing to stay attractive for your spouse (two-way street, by the way).
One Christian guy said that he talked to all sorts of Christian men about how his wife had lost sexual interest in him. He finally figured out that it was because he had become morbidly obese and she was turned off by him, but no one had the guts to tell him.
P.S. And there is a huge difference between a wife being a good sport even if she isn’t totally into it vs. being a martyr about having sex. The latter would make a guy feel like he is so awful that she considers it a chore to make love to him. The former just recognizes different levels of sex drive and/or how someone feels at the moment.
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You know, Roger that. She may not be as into it but if she’s having fun, sure. The key is that everybody’s getting something out of it.
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I think that women get far more out of sex when there is a connection outside the bedroom over values, mission and support. But that means that both the man and the woman have to choose for more than looks. It goes without saying that men are hyper-focused on looks, unless they really want a wife to complement their work-earning with ministry/mentoring, like to the university, neighbors, church, etc. So, my advice is for men who like sex to choose a women who they want to invest in for complementary ministry, and for women to choose men who show an interesting in investing in their ministry. That’s why I tell women to do STEM degrees and learn apologetics and economics. Men like those things, and we invest in women who are driven by reason and evidence. I’ve talked to women with these credentials, and that’s what they told me. Many orgasms in a short period of time, when the man picks a woman who is very outspoken about apologetics. In corporate America, men have to shut their mouths. They love wives who have good conversations and are persuasive.
And I see a lot of “feminist” women following the bad habits of men when choosing. Stop thinking about externals and appearances. In the long run, the man’s character matters more – even in the bedroom. Prefer a man who demonstrates the ability to invest in others with money, time and effort. Find out what he invests in, and become that. My suggestion is to major in STEM, apologetics, and economics. Be conservative politically. Be an expert at defending natural male-female marriage, the right to life of unborn children, and men’s rights in the face of feminism / socialism. Then the man will invest in you, and you’ll enjoy sex with him more. This is based on my conversations with women and confirmation from their husbands.
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The common practice of withholding sex reveals about women:
1) They want to control everything.
2) if she’s withholding sex, she’s not sexually attracted to the man she’s withholding sex from.
3) She doesn’t submit to him. (Women reflexively submit to men they’re sexually attracted to.)
At the end of the day, I will no longer accept mrs. deti’s withholding sex. She will either provide sex, liberally and on request, or she will do without me as a husband. She can either do what I ask, or she can get someone else to be her husband or go it alone. Because I won’t tolerate it anymore.
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Deti-where the heck do we find you posting most? Dalrocks absence creates a vacuum of Deit material.
wow, lets make up some more excuses for a women not having sex with her husband!!
There’s the door woman, don’t let it hit you on the way out!!!
Requirements to having sex with your husband:
1. Kids asleep or out of the house.
2. There are no urgent matters, for example, driving, operating machinery, tending to cooking stove, getting ready for work, in an ambulance or consulting with police, escaping danger….
3. Both awake and in the same place.
4. Have 30min to spare.
5. Reasonable state of personal hygiene (optional, but it helps).
The following is NOT required to have sex with your husband:
1. Be in mood. Just give him a few minutes of time and patience he may be able to change your mood.
2. Love sex as much as him. Do you want him to love sex with you more than he loves drinking at the pub? He will do more of the one that is more available and less of the other.
3. Prioritise phone scrolling or a TV show. Those things can be put on pause and are essentially unimportant.
4. Demonise his sex drive. A man connects emotionally through physical intimacy and sex. Turn that off and watch him slowly turn off communication, and the arguments become more dragged out.
5. Wait until later or tomorrow or any other excuse. He puts in so much effort, energy, and time way before initiating sex, and more time effort and energy in pleasing his wife. Don’t waste precious quality time you could have spent together over an excuse or fleeting feeling you think you have, which will waste his time and energy and also your time and energy and will do nothing to improve the relationship, but will definitely put harm on the marriage, especially if this bad behaviour has neglected him for so long.
You know what the problem with husbands they are like drowning divers, always complaining about getting some air.
The guys talking about wanting sex are not getting enough, yet their women complain about his porn habits?
The guys getting enough sex never talk about sex, and their wives never complain about chores not being done.
Ladies, there is power in pussy. Use it wisely.
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Can you talk about the husband’s who deny their wives intimacy and sex? Like when the husbands have a low sex drive and their wives have a higher sex drive, and the husband rejects the wife’s advances. I have rarely ever seen posts devoted to sex in a marriage that talk about what happens when men are rejecting intimacy and affection with their wives. Mosts posts like these seem to think it’s always women with a lower sex drive and I can honestly say from experience that is not the case. It also makes women who do have a higher sex drive and a husband with a lower sex drive feel like there is something even more wrong with the woman since it’s only ever mentioned about women having low sex drives and men having high sex drives.
Absolutely – it’s just as wrong for the husband to deny his wife his body as the wife to deny the husband hers. The reason it is rarely talked about is because it is so rare.