From Life Site News. (H/T Mary)
Full article:
A Swedish district court has sentenced a couple to nine months each in prison and fined them the equivalent of US $10,650 after they admitted to spanking three of their four children as a normal part of their parenting methods. Corporal punishment of children by parents was made illegal in Sweden in 1979, an early step in what a U.S. parental rights lawyer called the nearly total take-over of parenting by the state in Sweden.
Court documents, quoted by Sveriges Television, said that the parents, who have not been named in the press, “explained that they had used, what they themselves described as spanking, physical punishment as part of their methods for raising the children.”
There is no indication of abuse by the parents in the released documents, with the court noting that the parents “had a loving and caring relationship with their children.”
Nevertheless, the parents have been sent to prison and fined 25,000 kronor for each of the “affected children.” The children have been remanded to state-sponsored foster care since early this summer, and Mike Donnelly, Director of International Relations for the US-based Home School Legal Defence Association (HSLDA), told LifeSiteNews.com that it is “extremely unlikely” that the children will ever be returned to their family home.
Donnelly said that the case is typical of the stories of many families with traditional values in Sweden: “In the area of family rights in Sweden things really aren’t going well there.”
While the HSLDA does not hold an official position on the use of corporal punishment, Donnelly said it is clearly up to parents to determine whether corporal punishment is an appropriate form of discipline.
“Parenting has been outsourced, or simply directly taken over by the state in Sweden,” Donnelly said. “And these parents have been jailed for doing what in America would be perfectly normal.”
Ninety percent of Swedish children are in publicly funded day care from extremely early ages, as young as a year or 18 months, he said. It is the position of the state that parents are overruled by the state in areas of child rearing, he said.
Donnelly said, however, that the best interests of the child are not the state’s highest priority: “So lets take these kids who have had a loving and caring relationship with their parents and send them to foster care, and throw their parents into jail for nine months.”
Donnelly cited the now notorious case of Domenic Johansson, the boy who was snatched by state officials because his parents were homeschooling him, an act that is also illegal in Sweden.
“The bottom line is, don’t go to Sweden. Don’t move there, if you want to have a normal family.”
Well, what do we learn from this story?
Sweden is the most secular country on the planet. They think that the world is an accident and that there is no way that people ought to be – since there is no Designer to hold us accountable to any objective standard of morality. Also, there is no such thing as human rights, such as the right to parent your children as you see fit. The state determines what counts as a right. And you don’t have any rights to your children – they belong to the state. If there is no God, then there is no objective morality, and thus parents have any authority to tell children how they ought to be, or to make moral judgments against them.
Given the amount of regulation of the family by the state in Sweden, it makes no sense at all to start a family there. But other countries seem to want to follow along where Sweden is leading. Anyone who votes Democrat in the United States (or Liberal/NDP in Canada, or Labor/Liberal Democrat in the UK, or Labor/Green in Australia, etc.) is moving us towards where Sweden is now. Canada’s Liberal party actually has tried to pass a national day care system, and Hillary Clinton favors taxpayer-funded pre-Kindergarden. There is just something in the worldview of the secular left that wants to control the lives of others – a fascistic impulse that has no respect for the privacy of the family.
I should probably mention the word feminism, here. Sweden is also the most feminist country in the world, with laws requiring that boards of directors be 40% female. They do not want women to marry, they do not want women raising children. That is the state’s job, in Sweden. And most of the women in Sweden voted for it. They would rather have the state raise their children than raise the children themselves. They would rather have the state take 60% of their husband’s income and spend it on socialized day care than spend that money on their own family. Then they have the nerve to complain that men don’t want to make commitments. It’s ridiculous. The very laws that feminists vote for are the laws that destroy marriage, family and parenting. No one in his right mind should marry a feminist*.
(*Third-wave feminist)
WINTERY KNIGHT 
This is what’s coming to the USA if we sign on to the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child.
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UN is the biggest dictatorship in the world. Unelected people telling the elected leaders what to do.
We have a similar law in New Zealand. It’s passed about 1-2 years ago, even though 80% of New Zealand people (who voted in referendum) oppose it.
The prime minister said that no body will be jailed for light smacking (even though the law says otherwise).
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Sometimes a government has to put the best interests of the population first, rather than the majority. If all decisions are based on majority then you have anarchy.
In this particular case the law was designed to close some loopholes that allowed parents how had used hoses, brooms and steel pipes to escape conviction when “disiplining” their children. In the two and a half years since the bill passed there have been no parents convicted of smacking. The backlash against the bill was a storm in a tea cup.
I am personally proud to live in NZ where the rights of children is respected in law. It is the weak that need this protection as they can not protect themselves. I believe that it a parent who last lost control that needs to resort to violence to disipline their children. I have not needed to discipline any if my three children in this manner as I have instill good values through good patenting.
On a final note, I do not agree with the Swedish case as it did not sound like the parents were neglectful. They need assistance to be better patents, not jail time.
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Just because there are parents who abuse their children, that is no reason to remove the right of corporal punishment from all. Punish the abusers, not everyone else. So-called rights of children in the UN Convention usurp the rights of the parents to raise their children as they see fit. The government needs to get out of family business, but instead they do their best to disrupt families and destroy the whole idea of marriage and family relations.
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Are you saying that it is better to smack children or talk to them? Do you think that is setting a good example for your children? Why are counties that have such laws less violent societies, have less crime, less prisoners, less murders? Why is the USA so high in all of these areas?
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Why do atheists make assertions without citing any evidence and then expect people to take their claims seriously?
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Just doing it “Glenn Beck style” by “Just asking qustions”.
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So where was the loop hole? Those things you mentioned were already illegal, parents were already charged for doing those.
The new law takes it too far: any force for the purpose of changing the child’s behavior is illegal.
How many cases do you know where the law wasn’t sufficient to deal with child abuse? Law experts could not find any.
“In the two and a half years since the bill passed there have been no parents convicted of smacking. The backlash against the bill was a storm in a tea cup.”
It’s only because the current prime minister tells the police not to. But the law is one step towards Sweden like socialism.
And although no one being convicted, many good parents are already been terrorized by this new law.
http://www.familyfirst.org.nz/smacking_cases
The facts that there are many reports yet very few if any conviction suggests this law isn’t working.
This is just a typical socialism, make everyone guilty until proven otherwise.
“It is the weak that need this protection as they can not protect themselves.”
I find that hypocritical since the law does not protect the unborn.
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Moo, those societies in Europe are some of the most immoral on the planet. Perhaps if their children were properly disciplined, they would be following God and have a more moral society.
Nevertheless, it is not “violence” to properly spank a child. It is not violence nor abuse when done properly, but it is proper punishment for rebellion against parents. I think it is a very good example for children. Properly administered with training one should rarely have to spank.
Giving children and example of punishment for rebellion is certainly right and proper. It demonstrates the sort of thing God does to those who rebel against him.
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It’s no more violence than filling a tooth is violence, except with spanking the cavity is in the character of the child.
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Immoral or secular? You seem to have confused the two words. I believe that the way to have a more “moral” society is to have a set of core values that are separate from any religious doctrine, however taking dome of the good values from those doctrines is okay, not eating shimp or wearing clothing blends would not be on my list :-)
I do believe in punishment, however corporal punishment is not necessary for parents that are will to put more effort into there children. Laziness is no excuse for poor parenting.
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I think the real question here is this – should the state throw parents in jail for 9 months for smacking their children on the bottom with a paddle or an open hand? And should the state seize children from a family that thinks that spanking helps to improve the character of children?
Here is some evidence to consider before you answer:
https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/new-study-shows-that-children-who-are-spanked-are-more-successful/
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You are citing a poorly conducted (self reported survey), small scale (179 students) and possibly biased (Calvin College) study as if it were definitive. Is this confirmation bias on your part, or do you have more evidence to support your position.
Here are dome other (larger) studies that show smacking can lead to more aggressive and antisocial children…
http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2009/11/08/smacking-children-can-make-them-aggressive-and-anti-social/
I do agree with you that this is heavy handed and unnessary in the case presented in this post. The state should be supporting parents, not villifing them for minor offences.
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There are problems with your study as well – but I have the problems up on my computer at HOME not at work. The main problem being that this was a study for spanking low-income ONLY toddlers. 3 years old and under. I’ll post the thing I was reading about the Duke study later.
Anyway, the 179 people SO FAR is the first wave of data from a 2600 person study.
http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/nurture-shock/2009/12/30/some-kids-are-never-spanked-do-they-turn-out-better.html
Keep in mind that spanking is not something that has to be done out of anger. The best way to do it is to cool off first, send the child to their room, and then give them a hug afterward to let them know you love them and that you are doing this for their own good. Children need boundaries in order to grow up well.
I think the real question is this: is there a way that spanking can be used to benefit a child’s growth? And if not, is it a criminal offense? And if it is a criminal offense, how will that affect the number of people who marry and have children, since they can go to jail?
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Home now!
Here you go:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/a-scientific-review-of-disciplinary-spanking
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Secular societies are immoral societies. Without an objective standard of morality, such as God’s word, then it’s just one person’s opinion over another’s. When there are no absolutes, then society becomes the absolute.
As usual with people of your lacking in understanding scripture, you drag out the dietary laws which were only for the nation of Israel for a specific time period, and which were done away with in the N.T.
How many children have you raised? I was blessed with only two, and we spanked one of them one time. Yes it is possible to raise children without spanking, but certain personalities respond differently to punishment, and the way must be left open for the discretion of the parent.
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The old section 59 had a clause “Parents are justified in using force by way of correction towards a child if that force is reasonable in the circumstances.”
This ambiguous wording has allowed parents/caregivers to escape conviction even when instruments were used, such ad pipes (much of the blame should also go to the jurors in these cases).
A quick search and I managed to find a specific example when your “law experts” could not…
“In 2001 Section 59 saved a Taranaki gardener, Mach Ryder from a possible prison sentence after he’d smacked his 13 year old nephew Kane Sturgess with an alkathine pipe.”
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Hi Moo,
When law experts look at cases, they look closely. They don’t just look at the headlines.
BTW, 13 years old can be scary these days. They stab teachers, rape, etc.
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So you’ve only managed to find one headline. I can’t even find more information about that one case.
Where are other cases that so compelled our politicians and convinced few of you to pass the anti-smacking law against the will of the majority of NZers?
Hint: Sue Bradford (ex green party leader who was behind the law for those who don’t know) would have cited all the terrible cases where the anti-smacking law would have saved lives, if there’s any
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You aren’t trying hard enough. You need to go to the district or high court to find out more information as not everything is on the interwebs (as you mention, just the headlines).
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You’re missing the point. Read this news article:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-anti-smacking-law-working-well/tabid/423/articleID/178929/Default.aspx
Of 416 child assaults attended by police considered under the review, 25 involved “smacking” and 38 “minor acts of physical discipline”.
Of the smacking events, 13 people were warned and 11 had no further action taken. Only one resulted in a prosecution for Child Assualt (Manually), and did not result in a conviction.
(they say it’s a sign that the anti-smacking law is working … rubbish!)
“What these figures do show is that almost 350 families have gone through the trauma of an investigation, temporary removal of children, and potential court case for a smack or minor act of physical discipline, and 19 of these families have been taken to court,” says Mr McCoskrie.
“Family First is aware of a number of more recent cases where parents have been investigated, prosecuted and/or had children removed for removing children to time out, or using reasonable force to deal with defiant behaviour and tantrums.
“They continue to ignore the reality of parenting.”
—
And all you could find was one small headline (not even any detail of it) from ONE web page to justify terrorizing so many innocent parents.
The point is that anti-smacking law is a bad law that terrorizes innocent parents. The bad parents are still beating their children.
More links:
List of cases in NZ where parents have been the victims of the anti-smacking law: http://www.familyfirst.org.nz/smacking_cases
Destroying the Family: Swedish Style http://www.nkmr.org/english/destroying_the_family_swedish_style_by_eric_brodin.htm
The effects of Swedish anti-smacking law (read the section called ‘The Inquisition’): http://www.nkmr.org/english/anti_smacking_law_consultation_paper.htm
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Nice one, Anon. I burned my fingers approving the comment.
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