I’ve been reading this interesting book by James Dobson, entitled “What Wives Wish Their Husbands Knew About Women“. In the book he asks the reader to rank the 10 common sources of depression for wives in order:
- low self-esteem
- fatigue and time pressure
- loneliness, isolation, and boredom
- absence of romantic love in marriage
- financial difficulties
- sexual problems in marriage
- menstrual and physiological problems
- problems with the children
- aging
- in-law problems
He has surveyed a whole bunch of Christian and the order above is the order that they gave him from most severe to least severe.
There is room in the book for ranking these and my ranking was like his, pretty much, except that I had two things reversed. I had the financial difficulties and in-law problems reversed, because I have this idea that women are really bad with money and that they care more about relationships. I also had aging and sexual problems reversed because I don’t think that sex is very important to women, and they are sort of unaware of how much of a problem it is for men. However, I think they are terribly concerned about aging.
Note: Commenter Maureen points out to me that women are better than men with money these days. I can’t go against this evidence showing that she is right.
So I thought I would post this to see if anyone else has any thoughts about this list. Does it seem right to you?
I noticed in this article that more and more women are suffering from depression, so it’s important to know why they do that.
Excerpt:
One in four women aged between 45 and 64 now experience some form of mental disorder – an increase of 20 per cent in the last 15 years.
This decline in mental health is greater than any other age or gender group, according to the research.
The study also found that women in general suffer more mental problems – or talk about it more -with 21.5 per cent complaining of stress or depression compared to 13.6 per cent of men.
Mental health charity Mind said women in their 40s and 50s were becoming increasingly affected by trying to manage the responsibilities of family, home and work.
The figures emerged as the independent psychiatric Capio Nightingale Hospital reported a 20 per cent rise in enquiries relating to depression since the start of the year, many related to financial pressures.
The NHS Information Centre report, entitled the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007, was carried out by the National Centre for Social Research and the University of Leicester and questioned 7,461 adults.
It followed on from two similar NHS studies carried out in England in 1993 and 2000.
The report concluded that the number of 45 to 64 year old women with a common mental disorder rose from 20.5 per cent in 1993 to 25.2 per cent in 2007.
The survey also found that the number of women aged between 16 and 74 who reported thinking suicidal thoughts in the previous year rose from 4.2 per cent in 2000 to 5.5 per cent in 2007.
Dr Peter Byrne, director of public education at the Royal College of Psychiatrists, said the role of woman had changed significantly in the last 15 years.
“This particular age group was probably reared by their stay-at-home mothers and they are almost certainly now working mothers, who face the financial pressure of being part of a two income family,” he said.
It’s also important to pick a woman who can be made happy by things that the man can do. I think the wise man has to be careful to choose a woman whose interests are not based on her emotions but on a plan with outward-facing goals. Someone who likes to work at projects and get things done, rather than be dominated by her feelings. Someone who tries to control her feelings when she sees that they are not rooted in reality.
I think it’s a better situation for a man where he is in a relationship with a woman where he can do things in the world and that will drive her emotions. The situation to avoid is where a woman’s emotions are not rooted in anything in the real world and she in’t impressed by what a man does that accomplishes tasks to achieve specific goals that she is passionate about. You want to avoid a woman who is concerns about Betty Friedan’s “the problem that has no name” and one who is impressed with the apologetics course that you are teaching at the church.
You don’t want a woman who says “I’m depressed and since I don’t care about anything except my feelings and victimhood, nothing you can do for me impresses me”. You want a woman who says “I’m depressed but if you do things in the real world that help to achieve goals that I care about, then I’ll feel better”. This is something that has to be tested for in the courtship. At the very least, women ought to know how to identify when they are being tricked by their emotions. They have to be able to talk it out and see that there is nothing specific that is bothering them, and then realize that their feelings are playing tricks on them.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
Depression has also gone up for everybody, because we stay inside all the time and don’t get enough Vitamin D.
Re: money, that’s part of housekeeping. A woman who is interested in managing her household learns about money and is good with it. A woman who doesn’t have that incentive, usually doesn’t learn money matters or anything else housekeepish. (Barring artificial craziness, like a husband or boyfriend having control of every single money source and spending possibility.)
It’s very common for societies to have varying stereotypes of which sex is the practical one, and money is one of those issues where this varies widely. Many societies see men as the sex which is spendthrift and careless, while women are the scrimpers and savers, and the investors too. Our society has changed pretty abruptly on these matters, first telling both men and women to save and then to use credit carelessly. This generation is abruptly going back to saving, but it’s a little late.
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When I say “household,” of course that can mean just that woman and her stuff. Maiden aunts and single old lady schoolteachers are notorious for leaving millions to charity, in many cases.
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Hey Maureen, looks like you are right, objectively speaking:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/7419775/Women-are-better-with-money-than-men-study-finds.html
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Do you think women are more depressed not so much because they are less focused on their husbands or children but more because they are more focused on themselves? So it’s more of a choice, than an actual clinical depression?
Also, I haven’t thought out an argument fully, nor do I have time to, but your statement that married women should be driven by what their husband does is a little iffy and one-dimensional in my opinion. I think that they should be driven by God and God ALONE, and thereby be extremely supportive of everything their husband does that is in line with God’s will. But to say that a husband’s actions will pull a wife out of her depression? I think it would be best to depend on God for that.
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That’s a good point, and I should have said that. What I was thinking sort of implied that without saying it. My idea was that the wife would have an absolute scale where there were things that she would like to see accomplished FOR GOD, and that the husband could help her by contributing in that absolute sense. That’s why I gave that example of teaching the apologetics class. See that puts points on the board no matter how the woman feels about her self-esteem – good things are happening and she is part of that. So that might help her to not be depressed. It would help me to not be depressed if my wife was doing things that were effective and influential for God. That would help me to feel better if I was sad.
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Cool, we’re on the same page then! Her happiness would mean that she would really, really REALLY have to be super dedicated to God and not her own self in order to be pulled out of depression then… if that were the case then I doubt she’d be depressed much in the first place. Being that selfless is kind of a really hard thing to do.
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Depression is a freaky thing. Outside stimuli have nothing to do with. That’s why it’s so confounding for all involved. I have no idea where it comes from but I do know this: If the Holy Spirit lives within us then He can also overcome this. But we have to do our part by avoiding the triggers of depression. We need to be healthy in mind, body and spirit to assure that we are “balanced”. Many of the causes listed above are within our ability to control. We just need to be proactive, in my opinion.
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The point Kelly & Kevin makes is entirely spot on.
Depression is a spiritual matter and can be overcome despite all circumstances.
Consider the Apostle Paul – he learned how to be joyful as well as content in EVERY situation.
A disciple abiding in Christ can overcome any obstacle that life presents challenges. A husband / wife team even more so.
Is sacrificial love difficult for the man ? Yes. Is obedience difficult for the women? Yes. May I suggest, it is only difficult initially (It is the mark of a mature Christian / Disciple). It eventually becomes a joy since that is the way God intended it. It is overcoming the accumalation of secular teaching/thinking and self will.
The other person can build up or tear down.
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Mike I’m not sure I agree with you and Kevin.
It’s starting to smell of prosperity gospel when you (Kevin) say things like, “We need to be healthy in mind, body and spirit to assure that we are “balanced”. Many of the causes listed above are within our ability to control. We just need to be proactive, in my opinion.”
Mike I’m particularly interested in your statement that, “Depression is a spiritual matter and can be overcome despite all circumstances”.
Now you’ve used a universal qualifier there, ‘all’, which you provide 0 evidence for. I can perfectly understand the hypothesis that some depression is spiritual. Absolutely agree. But all? Have you gone through all the examples of clinical depression and, found on the evidence, that actually it’s all one big lack of faith in God?
Do you think that schizophrenia is completely reducible to spiritual status as well? If not, why is there a difference between clinical depression and clinical schizophrenia? If yes, do you also think that clinical autism is reducible to spiritual status as well?
I think we need to be careful here.
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Prosperity gospel? Heavens NO!!
Regular exercise and proper diet have been suggested as an overall treatment for depression.
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/diet-recovery
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/exercise-depression
I can personally attest to exercise’s effect on my mental state. My outlook is more positive and I feel like there is nothing I can’t deal with when I workout several times a week. Likewise, what I put into my body seems to effect my mental “sharpness”.
Furthermore, it should be no mystery to a Christian that going without regular Bible study and prayer time will wear us down Spiritually. When we are not yielding to God’s Spirit on a daily basis we can begin to rely on our own understanding. Speaking for myself, that’s rarely a good thing.
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Prosperity -no.. Dont think so. The only other god that Christ talked about was mammon. Further, “those who desire to be rich pierce themselves with many sorrows”.There are other scriptures like Matt 7, Rev. 3, and James that offer further insight.
When Christ came – He healed sickness that were attributed to demons (
“But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you” (the demons of epilepsy, madness ). He also healed the issue of blood, “withered hand”, paralysis, blindness ( which was meant to glorify God), and other sicknesses where because of sin ( go and sin no more less a “worse thing come upon you”). That very much sounds like a “spiritual problem” to me. You can judge for your self.
In terms of depression – the Father sent a angel from His presence to be with Christ in Gethsemane.
There are plenty of scriptures about joy, peace, and being content. 2 Corinthians 12:10 , Philippians 4:11 ,1 Timothy 6:6
1 Timothy 6:8 , Hebrews 13:5 , John 14:27, Romans 15:13.
1 Peter 1:8….you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory
Part of the Christian battle is the renewal of the mind as mentioned in Romans 12.
Hope that helps…
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Yes Jesus healed the sick and cast out demons…do you think it follows from that that he always heals the sick if they are faithful?
Do you think that if someone doesn’t get healed of a physical illness they must be doing something wrong spiritually?
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That’s a topic that is a little baffling to me. If sin is the cause of illness and infirmities, it seems like there would be a bahzillion sickly people in the church, let alone the world. It’s obvious to me that sin CAN cause sickness (ie alcoholism, which can bring on depression), but I can’t reconcile sin to all types of afflictions unless it’s a result of our sin condition in general. Still, not every sinner has a dire infirmity. Round and round…
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By the way, nice to meet you all. I crashed your party after a link was posted on a “Logical Christians” page on Facebook. I’m a student (again) at CCU in Colorado and have known our Savior since I was 17. I look forward to future discussions! :)
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Late to the party, but just wanted to echo: I’m the one that handles all the money stuff in our house, because my husband has zero money-sense. Just has no gut feeling for how much wiggle room we have, and doesn’t read the screw-you-over print of financial stuff. (His words, lest someone thing I’m slamming him– it’s nice to have something I can do to take care of him.)
I think one’s background culture may be involved; the largest influences on me are Scottish and Irish packrats. ^.^
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Oh yes, I know all about the Scotch-Irish. Hard-workers, very thrifty.
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When my grandma visited Scotland to see where her dad had lived as a kid, she had a Velcro wallet.
Was shopping, found something and pulled out her wallet and opened it with a loud noise.
The shopkeeper was highly approving: “A true Scot’s wallet– it screeeeems when ye open it!”
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My heritage is Danish, and they are frugal. My dad can squeeze a penny hard enough to make Abraham Lincoln scream like a girl. And so can I.
I can handle money. My husband cannot. Because of his determination to be in control of the money, his false belief that men handle money better, and his blindspot to how he ill-manages it, we are in financial difficulty now. When I handled the money, we were ahead on our bills and had cushion in case of crisis. When he handles it, stupid things happen, things get shut off, like water or internet.
Insisting that men are better at handling money has brought more than one family to financial ruin. It also causes many men who stink at handling money to keep control of it when they should have handed it over to the little woman years ago.
(In some families the man is better at handling the money. In other families it’s the woman. I’m not against men handling money. I’m for the wise spouse handling the money, whether it’s the man or woman.)
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Lol, Wintery. You are confusing my kin with an alcoholic drink. Scots, not Scotch :o)
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Well, I thought it was Scots-Irish, but when I did a search, everyone was saying Scotch-Irish! Silly me!
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It’s interesting to hear your opinions on women’s emotions versus men’s. In many ways, my own personal experience reflects what you say, but it has a subtle difference.
It is entirely true that my emotions “sneak up on me” more often than my husband’s do him. For instance, I’ll get hungry, tired, maybe had a rough day, etc, and suddenly find the smallest of things are way more difficult to handle than they would be were I feeling more “stable”. This results in a small “outburst” (snapping at my husband, using a tone that’s angry rather than loving, feeling defeated, etc). My husband does have these same “outbursts”, though he has them much less often. However, when he does have them they’re much more severe. My outbursts might be compared to a bubble bursting, whereas his look more explosive. What it typically looks like for me; I’ll say, snap at my husband for some trivial thing, but then within moments after snapping, I immediately recognize what’s going on, apologize and gently remove myself from the situation until my emotions are back under control. However, when my husband’s emotions “sneak up on him”, he is not able to recognize near as swiftly what is going on (often I will know long before he’s figured it out). Thus his outbursts can last much longer and be much more painful. I think he would agree that in this way I am actually much more able to continue behave rationally when feeling irrational. I’ve got a lot more practice at it.
Similarly, when I experience that vague glum feeling that you get perhaps when you’re in a rut, or tired, or stressed, I quickly recognize what’s going on and have several tried and true coping mechanisms in place (a nice long hug actually works wonders – serotonin is a wonderful thing). Whereas he is far more apt to take that feeling more seriously, that something is seriously wrong with his life, when really, a hearty, warm bowl of chili will probably fix him right up.
Personal anecdotal experience of course. But I’d hazard a guess that study would back up my claim that, in general, women have more “practice” with their emotions.
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Thanks Francine. Your view sounds accurate to me. I think it will help me to be less explosive.
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