Excerpt:
The atheist persisted, “But if God exists, why do some babies die such horrible deaths?”
Well, if the atheist is granting that God exists, then he has a valid question. While he can’t explain evil and suffering from his atheistic worldview, I need to explain it from mine.
My explanation went this way. Although I know why evil in general occurs (see the video), I don’t know why every specific evil occurs. But I know why I don’t know why—because I’m finite and can’t see into the future. Since God is infinite and can see all the way into eternity, he may allow evil events that ultimately work together for good. In other words, he can still bring good from evil even if we can’t see how.
To illustrate, I referred back to the classic Christmas movie “It’s a Wonderful Life.” That’s where George Bailey, played by Jimmy Stewart, falls on hard times, becomes despondent and tries to commit suicide. He’s saved by an angel and is permitted to see how life in his town would have turned out if he had never existed. George sees that everything would have turned out far worse without him, and thus realizes that even though evil infects life, good can prevail in the end. George could only see this with God’s timeless perspective. Only God can see how trillions of free choices and events can interact ultimately for good even if some of them seem hopelessly negative at the time. (In fact, that’s one reason why God told Job to trust him.)
At that point, a man sitting ten feet from the atheist raised his hand.
“Go ahead, sir.”
He first looked over at the atheist, then back at me and said, “I know of a young woman who was raped and became pregnant. The rape nearly destroyed her.” His voice began to crack . . . “But she decided that she would not punish the baby for the sin of the father. She later gave birth to a baby boy.” (By this point he was weeping openly.) “And that boy grew up to be a pastor whom God has used to help bring many people to Christ. He ministers to people to this day. That boy grew up to be me.”
He then looked back at the atheist and said, “My mother turned evil into good, and God can too.”
The atheist left immediately after the event ended, but I did get to meet that brave pastor who spoke up. His name is Gary Bingham, and he’s the pastor of Hillside Wesleyan Church in Marion, Indiana. Gary told me that his mom had self-confidence issues for many years but is doing much better since becoming a Christian a few years ago. I thanked him and asked him to let his mom know that she touched many for good that night. I hope through this column she has touched many more today.
Sometimes a good witness can help to illustrate a good argument. If you would like to hear a good debate on the problems of evil and suffering, then click here: William Lane Craig vs Walter Sinnott-Armstrong.For a book length treatment of the problems of evil and suffering, see the book “God?: A Debate between a Christian and an Atheist“, published by Oxford University Press, 2003. This is part of their famous Point/Counterpoint series, where you get both sides of controversial issues from top scholars. Oxford University Press is the top academic press in the world, so this is a good book to have.
If you would like to learn more about the problems of evil and suffering, see the related posts below. The first link in the list tells you everything you need to know to get started.
Related posts
- Why does God allow people to experience evil and suffering?
- Why doesn’t God gives us more evidence that he exists?
- New study explores whether atheism is rooted in reason or emotion
- Steven Cowan on the connection between evil, suffering and no-see-ums
- Why do bad things happen to good people?
- Brian Auten interviews Clay Jones on the problems of evil and suffering
- Paul Copan explains the problems of evil and suffering in 17 minutes
- William Lane Craig explains why God permits evil and suffering
- Can a meaningful standard of good and evil exist without a Designer?
- Can atheists make sense of good and evil?
- Analyzing Christopher Hitchens’ case against God
WINTERY KNIGHT 
Thanks for this super post. It was very moving to hear of the pastor’s story. That reminds me of Rebecca Kiesling’s story: http://www.rebeccakiessling.com
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Pretty much all pain and suffering is brought on by people incurring self will over another. Last time I checked this wasn’t from God.
I think a better question would be “why cant be people treat each other better and not kill, maim, and destroy” ?
Hence that is where the problem lies – human nature is evil and is beyond salvaging.
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Or would be beyond salavaging, if not for the sacrifice of the Saviour. :)
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Exactly – this fits very well with being crucified with Christ which was central in much of Pauls writings ( ie (Specifically Romans 6).
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From an apologetic standpoint, I think asking a skeptic/atheist if they believe evil can exist without man puts them in a dilemma.
If they say “yes,” then they’ve just committed to at least supernaturalism, because then evil would exist due to a mind outside of humanity and nature (which is a-moral).
If they say “no,” then they’ve shifted the burden of evil away from God and on to man.
Either way, the problem of evil can’t be used by the skeptic as an argument against God’s existence.
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In review of the scriptures – the apostle Paul addressed the skeptics in Acts 17 and no more ( also see Romans 2;14-16). He didnt waste His time any more and just preached Christ and Christ crucified:
1 Corinthians 2
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Also remember the Lord spoke in parables – intentionally making it difficult to hear. In order to hear and see – one has to want to and is a truth seeker.
Remember – the word goes to 4 types of soil and only those with a honest and good heart bear fruit (image of Christ).
As much as feel apologetics is important, it is not scriptural ( if it is – please show chapter / verse in old and new and context).
Peace out,
Mike
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1 Peter 3:15-16
15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Ephesians 6:12
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
I only put NT passages because that’s all you gave, but these are two clear examples in context, and the Greek word for “answer” in 1 Peter 3:15 is apologia, which is where the term apologetics comes from.
So very Scriptural. It’s not the most important part of the Christian faith to be sure, but everyone is called to be at the ready to defend their faith and their Lord from attack.
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Lets look at the context
– 1 Peter 3: 8- 4:19 it is suffering for righteous / “doing good”
– ” Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you”
Notice “they ask you”
This begs the question – What do they ask ? ( I am going to stick with KVJ on this one if you dont mind)
“asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you”
notice “reason of hope that is in you” – this is now “your testimony” or bare witness of what “YOU” know about Christ in you. Much like a witness does in a court room ( ie just the facts of what you know – John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness……
2. Eph 6:12 – 20 (ESV)
The context is the saints are in a “spiritual battle”
Notice ” For our struggle is not against flesh and blood” (people)
but
“but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”
I will throw in a couple more verses that Paul mentioned that
2 Corinthians 6
But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
2 Corinthians 10
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
( For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Again – my reading leads me to believe that our enemies are not people but are spiritual battles.
So what does one do when confronted with evil ? (I will keep this short but there are plenty of scriptures that support this)
Romans 12
Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
How does one defend the oneself and/or Lord from attack ? (I will keep this short but there are plenty of scriptures that support this)
Defending the Lord
It is my interpretation of the scriptures and situationally dependent ( ie led by the Spirit)- if someone ask – give them a answer and let it be. Dont waste your breath arguing – God is quite capable and big enough to defend Himself. If they honestly knew what they were doing, they wouldn’t “attack” the Lord. For me, I take Christ’s example on calvary and before Pontius Pilate.
IS 53
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth
Dont forget about Paul – Acts 24:10 (there are many more )
10And when the governor had nodded to him to speak, Paul replied
The fool says in their heart, there is no God (psalm 14). Common says dont argue with idiots- people won’t be able to tell the difference.
Defending their faith
This is a attack on your walk since you mentioned “defend their faith” and again, this a “IMHO” so take it with a grain of salt.
– Much of the warnings of the scriptures are “religious false” teachings that lead to sin and separation from Christ ( Matt 24:5, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8) and there are a quite a large number of warnings that warn the saints against “false teachers”
-In review of what was said, see above for 2 Cor 6 and see the book of Acts
1. Paul went into the synagogues as was his custom
2. Paul did speak outside but it was on invitation as in Acts 17
Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is
that you are presenting?
You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.”
All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest
ideas.)
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus
3.Paul defended ‘himself” against the Roman court from charges by the Jews- this was a opportunity to present the gospel.
Interesting enough – PAUL NEVER DID GO BACK to speak to them. Take a look at Acts 18 to see what he did.
In review of the cases – apologetics is used “if they ask” or defending oneself (Stephen was a great example too) and not to prove the existence of God.
Caveat Emptor – if God directs a person or a group to take a stand against abortion or other moral wrongs in society – then by all means do what He tells you to do and encourage others to pray.
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So we should be entirely reactionary when defending the gospel? That’s certainly not Scriptural. The Great Commission is to “go out, making disciples of all nations.” Apologetics is one (not the only, but one) area in which a believer can fulfill that Great Commission. So to be reactionary is to miss out on half of what’s been called of us. The devil most certainly is not reactive–he’s proactive with his deception. We need to be proactive in keeping that deception from reaching as many ears and hearts as we can. We’re not warring with the people (we hate the sin, not the sinner), but the deceptive spirit that is a part of these people. So there’s nothing un-Biblical about an apologetic approach.
The goal of apologetics is not to argue or debate. The goal is to paint the picture that life has no meaning without God. Sometimes it boils down to things like the problem of evil or Jesus’ resurrection, but if you’re not prepared to handle objections, especially when they’re on blogs for the purpose of deceiving others, then you’re missing out on a piece of the Christian faith. True, being a true disciple of Christ is complex, because we are called to lots of specific areas of following. But we should strive to accomplish as much as we can for the kingdom of God, even if apologetics is a part of that.
Just a small aside, why are you sticking with the KJV when the original Greek is far more appropriate, and it uses plainly the word apologia? The question you should be asking within that verse is the “answer” or “defense” part, not “the reason for the hope.” Part of the reason for my hope is that I have strong positive empirical evidence to believe that the faith that I have is in Someone that’s real, and I also have experiential evidence to back up my own belief (I’ve experienced the power of the Holy Spirit). It’s much easier to break someone’s belief down into doubt if you only have one or the other.
I would just suggest that you consider both worthy of accomplishing Christ’s mission for us, and not dismiss apologetics because it gets dirty in the trenches.
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Christian discipleship is a oxymoron in America.
As a nation that has professed Christianity is so removed from actual Christian discipleship with the watered down doctrine of grace, rapture, prosperity, accept Jesus in your heart is so self serving and hypocritical that the testimony is removed and is a laughing stock of the world.
Leading a holy life requires stepping out of the American culture is too radical. We are to busy making money, watching soft porn / movies and the superbowl on Sunday while barely attending a 1 hour church service (btw, I am referring to Christians not the secular world).
It is hard to make a defense of the Christian faith when Christians live no differently than the world (ie hypocrisy is evident).
The strongest apologetic for Christianity is a changed life and intact families (w/ well behaved children). A holy, blameless life , that is full of good works that help the poor, homeless, and orphans ( there is plenty of scripture that supports this) this is seen in action and can “be felt” (it brings condemnation on the unsaved ).
In a nutshell – talk is cheap. It is time to fish or cut bait.
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Two problems with this view:
1) Any religion can “prove” their truth claims by having good marriages and lots of well-behaved children. Look at Hindus and Mormons. Does that make Hinduism and Mormonism true, too?
2) You can’t do the moral work without getting the truth right. That’s why proper study and careful handling of evidence are necessary to constrain action and make virtue possible. Understanding the harm that evil causes helps a person to steel themselves to do the right thing. And I think the Holy Spirit is there to guide the studies and support the good actions.
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I have the UTMOST respect for Mormon and Hindu families structure / family value/ discipline and marriage success While I dont agree with the theology – I dont argue with results – it is hypocritical. Btw, out a NEWSWEEK survey, Mormons RANKED #1 in biblical / knowledge. Go figure.
In regards to to truth and doctrine compare what the liberal media press said about Jerry Falwell vs. Mother Teresa. The liberal press couldn’t say enough good about about her while JF did more harm than good. With this being said – Mother T doctrine and life brought more glory to God than Jerry F ( let the readers be the judge) despite Mother T doctrine was incorrect.
I am in agreement that the Holy Spirit is needed – but who bothers to ask ? And that is where the problems lies.
Btw, I wrote in a couple earlier blogs about my divorce. In a nutshell, I lost EVERYTHING in a very corrupt California Judicial System divorce. May I offer the following insight ? It is meant to be insightful and I believe consider this a current revelation from God.
One of the HARDEST things to do is to present a peaceful testimony of God when one is being “ripped to shreds and/or suffering complete loss”
Christ replies/testimonies before Pilote were perfect and peaceful, shrewd and quiet
Pauls replies are “work in progress” throughout his whole life till his last one was before Caesar ( Paul was rather hostile at first and by the end of life – his words were gracious).
Now what does this all mean and how does it relate one might ask?
Well, to get the point where you dont attack back while suffering loss / physical pain and you can deliver what God tells you without attacking your attackers takes a serious learning curve in sainthood and discipleship (ie Gods college)
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Btw, further thoughts on the what was taught in the NT
– Presenting the gospel of the kingdom / repentance for discipleship
– Christ / Apostles over to the legal system by the religious crowd
– Non of the defended against atheism ( Christ warned against mammon)
– People followed Christ / John into the wilderness to hear them
– Paul taught in the synagouge
I really think arguing with a person over the existence of God is a HUGE waste of time – good actions (testimony) is much more convincing ( think about this one – it is time actually doing good works to help those who need it vs. those who dont.
Which one do you think would be more receptive to Christ – “blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom” or “the fool who says there is no God ?”
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Right, so you agree with Mormonism and Hinduism, so long as the Mormons are nice and have nice families, and the Hindus are nice and have nice families. Anyone who does nice things can say whatever they want about God and their beliefs become true objectively. So the question of whether God exists and whether Jesus rose from the dead, on your view, are best decided by personal testimony and good actions. Not on the basis of arguments and evidence, like observations of the cosmic microwave background radiation, which proves that the universe began to exist. And by good actions, you presumably mean actions that are interpreted as good BY OTHERS, such that you would have to say and do things that please these other people in order to prove your religion is true. You could never say or do anything in the Bible that makes them feel bad, because then your religion would be false.
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Hi Mike
I really do appreciate your desire to see people “walk the talk” and live lives that are consistent with the faith they profess. I also agree that unloving behaviour towards non-christians is damaging.
That said, I think WK makes a good point that if we leave it only up to our lives, there is little reason for many people to consider the need to change from any other religion to Christianity. If the “proof” of Christianity is only in clean, moral lives, many Mormons, Muslims, and Hindus have plenty of proof.
Note that none of the apostles defended against atheism because back in the day atheism really wasn’t big. Paganism was and you will note that Paul, Peter and others spend a good bit of time warning against false doctrine and pagan ideas.
Moreover, how are we being loving to someone if we just sit there and wait for them to ask us questions? It’s like knowing the cure for an illness someone has and waiting for them to ask you for it because you look healthy. Sure, they may ask you, but they also may not. It is our duty to our fellow human beings to be pro-active in presenting them with the gospel and the evidence for it being true and to expose the hollowness of the things they cling to.
Just the other day I was speaking to a lady who said “it doesn’t matter what you have faith in, so long as you have faith and you do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. This lady is religious, but not a Christian. She has also experienced interfaith relations with nice “Christian” people of whom she speaks highly. However, they obviously haven’t presented her with the gospel. Sadly, we were interrupted, so I wasn’t able to share my views with her properly. But this lady’s future concerns me. She doesn’t know Jesus as her Lord and Saviour and seeing “nice” Christian people (which she already has) hasn’t challenged her to examine her own beliefs at all.
Be careful that in an effort to be likable and inoffensive that you don’t end up implying to non-christians that all beliefs are fine with God, while Jesus said that He is the only way to God.
Moreover, I have heard a number of testimonies of people who have been brought to faith in Christ because of the way God has used apologetic arguments. Those were not a waste of time.
We should present our case for Christianity with gentleness and respect, but we should remember also to present it! :)
Have you encountered much in the way of apologetics before? If not, I would suggest, as a good place to start, “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel or “More than a Carpenter” by Josh McDowell. Both are very readable books.
Have a look at this page of testimonials on William Lane Craig’s “Reasonable Faith” site:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=testimonials
Craig has had a huge impact on the lives of many non-christians and Christians in bringing them to Christ and strengthening their faith. And he debates people on the existence of God all the time. A waste of time? I think not. God has blessed his work with much fruit. We need more of the same.
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This is good. This is good enough to post as a standalone post. I wish I had written it.
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Thank’ee. :) I hope it’s helpful.
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You’re very helpful – and it’s because you have studied these things and debated them. If you didn’t study and debate, but just worked on superficial stuff, then what help could you be to anyone, God or man? You took your faith seriously, and it shows. I’m not the only one who is pleased… he is pleased, too.
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