The audio is here. (133 megabytes!)
Details:
- Opening statements – 15 minutes
- First rebuttal – 10 minutes
- Second rebuttal – 5 minutes
- Q&A – 30 minutes
Summary of Hitchens’ opening speech, snarkified and with spin removed
Contentions:
- God has to make the universe the way I would, but he didn’t.
- I don’t like some things that people who claim to be religious do.
Arguments from science:
The fact that our current universe is running out of usable energy (entropy) means that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that the universe should go on forever.
The fact that the universe is a very big place means that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that the universe should be very small.
The fact that the universe is a very old place means that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that the universe should be very young.
The fact that the universe contains exploding stars means that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that the universe should not contain exploding stars.
The fact that the universe is expanding means that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that the universe should not be expanding.
The fact that the Earth is a small rock means that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that the Earth should not be a small rock.
Arguments from history:
Although I don’t believe that there is any objective standard of right and wrong, I personally feel that Islamic terrorism is yucky yuck yuck. It’s just my opinion though, since there is no objective standard of morality on atheism, but only arbitrary personal preferences and arbitrary customs that vary by time and place. Since these Muslim terrorists claim to be acting on behalf of God, and I don’t like what they do, therefore God doesn’t exist.
Although I don’t believe that there is any objective standard of right and wrong, I personally feel that Israeli military expansion is yucky yuck yuck. It’s just my opinion though, since there is no objective standard of morality on atheism, but only arbitrary personal preferences and arbitrary customs that vary by time and place. Since these Israeli military expansionists claim to be acting on behalf of God, and I don’t like what they do, therefore God doesn’t exist.
Arguments from the human condition:
Although I said a minute ago that we should be cautious about the good experimental science that supports theism by showing that the universe came into being from nothing, fine-tuned for complex life, based on multiple lines of experimental evidence, I actually think that Darwinian evolution is true beyond a shadow of a doubt, based on ZERO lines of experimental evidence for macro-evolution (the evolution of new body plans and organ types). But since Darwinism is definitely true – as true as man-made global warming! – then God couldn’t exist. Why? Because God would not use a gradual process to create life, because I wouldn’t use a gradual process to create life. Also, we are similar to chimpanzees which proves that molecules to man evolution is true. Certainly there is no peer-reviewed evidence that human and chimpanzee DNA are actually very different. (Note that the link goes to Nature, the #1 peer-reviewed science journal).
When you were in your mother’s womb, you grew some hair and then it fell off, proving there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that babies should not grow hair in their mother’s womb, only to have it fall off.
Humans have appendices that have no purpose that is apparent to me, based on my vast experience with biology gleaned from writing snarky columns. Since I don’t see a purpose to your appendix – certainly there is no peer-reviewed evidence that the appendix has any useful biological purpose – therefore God does not exist.
When you were a child, you grew some teeth and then they fell off, proving there is no God, because God, if he existed, would agree with me that children should not grow teeth, only to have them fall off.
There are a lot of species that go extinct in the history of life and this proves that there is no God, because God, if he existed, would not have wanted lots of species to go extinct.
The smart theistic evolutionist Francis Collins believes in Darwinian evolution and he’s smart. I can’t give you any reasons why he believes in Darwinian evolution right now, but you should definitely believe in evolution because of his authority and his skill at avoiding debates on evolution with his critics in the intelligent design movement.
You need to be more humble like me, you ignorant fools. If you simply read more cosmology, physics, chemistry and biology, like we clever journalists have, then you would be a smart atheist like me! And humble, too, you ignorant, illiterate fundamentalists!
Summary of Dembski’s opening speech
Contentions:
- Evolution is false, Hitchens’ proofs from his book don’t work.
- Hitchens makes historical claims that are falsified by the evidence.
- The progress of science falsifies atheism
- Theism explains the big question of life better than atheism
Darwinian evolution vs. the evidence:
Junk DNA is not junk because the latest peer-reviewed scientific evidence shows that the so-called Junk-DNA actually has important functions in the cell. (Note that the link goes to Nature, the #1 peer-reviewed science journal).
The fossil record does not show a gradual pattern of emerging body plans because the latest evidence on the Cambrian explosion shows that new body plans emerged fully-formed without gradual developmental pathways.
The inverted retina is not a bad design, the counter-intuitive design actually is superior when the latest published research is considered.
Hitchens’ argument about the evolution of the eye rely on mathematical simulations, not on experimental evidence.
Hitchens is committed to Darwinism whether there is any evidence or not, because he pre-supposes materialism, so some form of evolution MUST be true, regardless of how lousy the observable evidence is for it.
Historical arguments:
Hitchens dismisses Israel’s time in Egypt and at Mount Sinai, but the evidence is written up in books like those of James K. Hoffmeier, published by Oxford University Press.
- Ancient Israel in Sinai: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Wilderness Tradition. (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2005).
- Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition. (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1997).
Hitchens dismisses the historical records about Jesus, but these are again made clear in publications of top academic presses. (E.g. – N.T. Wright, Richard Bauckham, etc.)
The progress of science falsifies atheism:
Atheism requires that chemical evolution be true. Darwin thought that cells were simple because he needed them to be simple for this theory, and he didn’t know anything about what cells were really like. But the progress of science has shown that the complexity of cells is enormous.
You can actually use rigorous methods developed by Bill in his book “The Design Inference”, published by Cambridge University Press, and apply them to effects in nature, like archaeological artifacts, radio signals from space, and… cells and molecular machines.
When you apply the mathematical methods for inferring design to biology in books like “Signature in the Cell” or “The Design of Life”, components of living systems are found to be designed for a purpose.
The big questions are answered better by theism than atheism:
Other arguments: the cosmological argument, the fine-tuning argument, the moral argument, the argument from rationality/reason, the argument from mathematical foundations of reality, the argument from the the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus, etc.
Very odd. You seem to have listened to a completely different debate to the rest of us.
I heard Hitchens give fairly coherent arguments, about why evolution is likely to be true, and why young earth creationism and the idea of life being designed is likely to be wrong. he attempted to simplify his arguments for the audience of schoolchildren, and ended with an exhortation to then to think for themselves, rather than just accept what they’re told.
Dembski seemed confused about who he was debating – mixing up Hitchens and Dawkins several times. Or perhaps it was just that he was reading from notes he’d prepared for another occasion. Whatever the cause his presentation was pre-prepared and delivered with a complete failure to address any of Hitchens’ points.
While none of us is going to be swayed by either of them – at least Hitchens may have planted a seed of skepticism in a few of the kids minds – which is more of a victory than this type of event usually affords anyone.
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Hi Wintery Knight,
Perhaps you’d like to actually respond genuinely to Hitchens’ closing rebuttal (you may need to watch it again). Or maybe you’re just more comfortable making completely ludicrous and unfunny “interpretations” of his thinking. Sorry, but the only embarrassing caricature here is you. Prove me wrong.
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“mixing up Hitchens and Dawkins several times”
Huh? Dembski differentiated between the two. He quoted many different people, does that mean he confused Hitchens with all the other people he quoted?
“Or perhaps it was just that he was reading from notes he’d prepared for another occasion. Whatever the cause his presentation was pre-prepared and delivered with a complete failure to address any of Hitchens’ points.”
Say what? Hitchen’s rebuttal was that the church has been slow to accept new scientific discoveries. How did that address any of Dembski’s points? Then he doesn’t explain the eye but said read up on it, it was a direct challenge by Dembski. Then he talks about Planet Earth and the salamander. So, he gives a micro-evolutionary example for a macro-evolutionary problem. To finish it off, he rebuts Dembski’s theological comment by talking about archeology on the Exodus, huh? Yes, evolutionists do have different views, how does that affect the naturalists anti-theology that Dembski brought forward.
Dembski owned this.
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I will never get over the good ol’ “snarkification” of atheist debate tactics. I laugh every time.
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“Huh? Dembski differentiated between the two”
43 minutes in, he refers to “Richard Hitchens”.
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Richard Hitchens. LOL! Well, at times they do seem indistinguishable ;-)
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Dawkins is stupid compared to this guy…
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