The post is here. (H/T Wes Widner)
Excerpt:
We all struggle to understand why God allows horrible things to happen to people who do not deserve it. This afternoon, my desire is to ponder this issue together. I will argue that we can come to a better understanding of why bad things happen to good people by identifying the who, the why, the what, and the how of evil and suffering. Who causes evil? Why does Almighty God allow evil? What does God do about evil? And How are we to respond to evil? As we search out an understanding of the who, why, what, and how of evil, I pray that God will illuminate our hearts and minds.
Before we delve into the who, why, what, and how of evil, we need to establish two preliminary facts. First, if Christianity is true, then there are no truly ‘good’ people. Second, if there is no God, then there are no truly ‘bad’ things to happen to people. We could spend an entire week talking about both of these fundamental truths, but we simply do not have the time. Thus, I am going to just touch on them briefly and then move on.
You have to read the rest to get the full effect, but there is a lot of wisdom even in the excerpt.
Here’s my best post on the problem of evil, if you want more.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
“Why do bad things happen to good people?”
R.C. Sproul, in a rare moment of brevity, answered, “They don’t.” Kind of like this post: “There are no truly ‘good’ people.” It’s an accurate answer, but, of course, no skeptic is going to buy it.
LikeLike
Yeah, but that’s my answer. Really bad things have been happening to me lately, but I’m not a good person, so I’m not complaining.
LikeLike
I really suggest reading C S Lewis’ The Problem of Pain. Its a great study on this subject. The basic premise is that pain is a test of one’s beliefs and that man-made pain is a testimony to our having been gifted with free will. Were we not free to cause others pain by being ‘bad’, we would not have free will, God’s gift to us. I really cannot do his argument justice, so I suggest everyone read the book.
LikeLike
Yep, Jesus says only God is good. I believe Him. If we all divested ourselves of our sense of entitlement we’d avoid a lot of disappointment. Of course we still have to deal with pain when it comes our way. But being a Christian makes all the difference if we keep reminding ourselves of God’s perspective on things. If we place our trust primarily in Jesus and centre our joy in Him, we will have peace and joy that passes all understanding – even in the midst of pain.
LikeLike
I agree with Mary.
My book would be, “Why Good Things Happen to Bad People”.
He makes his sun to shine on the just and the unjust.
He sheds his blood for the sins of the whole world.
Whoever will may come.
How can we explain such goodness?!
LikeLike
Zigactly. And I like that book title! :)
LikeLike
Since I can’t really say I’m exactly “good”, I’ve switched the question to, “Why do bad things happen to cool people?” (I’ve been learning from the left.)
LikeLike
There was this guy named Job, once.
Not saying the book holds all the answers.
But I am saying, people have pondered this for a long time, Job supposedly being the oldest book in the Bible.
Jesus also mentioned a tower that collapsed and killed a bunch of people and He said, point blank, that the people in the tower were neither better nor worse than anyone else in the region. The tower falling was not judgement upon them, as many had supposed.
I know. I’m not adding a thing.
But I do recomend to any Christian going through a bad time to read Job. It doesn’t solve anything. But it can help a person see a few things differently and look beyond the immediate.
LikeLike
Actually this is a pretty good contribution since no one mentioned it. I just referenced Job earlier this week.
LikeLike
Well, good. I’m glad if it was in any way helpful.
Job is rubber-meets-the-road faith.
LikeLike
“He makes his sun to shine on the just and the unjust.”
I note that it doesn’t read: “the preponderance of unjust people and the small minority of just people.” It says just and unjust. Both. So there goes your argument about there being no good people, W.
Regarding how the sun shines, it is impartially, just like God, and thank heavens for that.
LikeLike
McSpinster, context is important.
When Jesus speaks in Matthew 5 of the “just and the unjust” it’s in the context of how we should love our enemies. So the “just” are those we would not call enemies. They are our friends, the likable people, the ones who treat us well in our estimation and who we would call “good”.
But, are any of us really good in God’s estimation? In Mark 10 Jesus is talking to a rich young man who is very respectable. He strives hard to obey the law and has done so ever since he was a little boy. He knows what the people we generally call good are like because he is one. He comes to Jesus respectfully, falls on his knees and asks a good question about inheriting eternal life. He calls Jesus “good”. Yet, Jesus doesn’t answer his question directly. Instead He asks him another one: “Why do you call me good?… No one is good — except God alone.”
Jesus asks this question because this rich young man doesn’t yet realize that he is not able to be good in God’s eyes. Only God is truly good. And what is the solution for sinful man (even the respectable sort)? God is the solution. When the disciples despair of ever being able to meet the standard to get into Heaven, Jesus says, in verse 27, that with God “all things are possible”. So God is the one who enables us to meet the standard of “good”. How does He do it? Well, the young man needs to realize that the teacher he called “good” was actually REALLY good in God’s eyes, not just in the eyes of man, because He is God Himself. He is more than respectable. He is pure, holy and truly good as only God can be. Just as God rescued the Israelites from bondage through all the ages, He rescues sinful man from bondage to sin by His own holiness. Jesus will give sinful men His holiness, His righteousness. Man will become good “with God” as he abandons the idea that he is good and takes on the imputed righteousness of Jesus. That is the only way for man to be truly good.
LikeLike
Well I could make the same distinction about the story of the prodigal son. Jesus distinguishes between the good, obedient son and the one that wastes all he has on riotous living and then wants to come home. His father’s response is to welcome him back and to reprimand the other “better” son. Moral of the story: even prodigal sons can’t be permanently separated from God, but they have to want to return to the fold, where they are loved and redeemed.
I’m not sure we’re arguing different points here, other than that a distinction is made (just vs. unjust, son who is a party-animal vs. son that is obedient) when it could just as easily have been to lump everyone into a single category. If there are no good people, as Wintery posits, then there is no need for distinctions and no need for parables, either.
LikeLike
McSpinster, of course God sees the difference between the prodigal son and elder brother who stayed home and was sober. But the elder brother had his own deficiencies. He didn’t see his own sins, only his own perceived righteousness because he was better than his younger brother, and he was jealous of the father’s generosity to the prodigal. That’s why he got reprimanded. Neither son is really all good. So the parable is for both kinds of sinners: the obvious sinner and the respectable sinner.
You also haven’t responded to what Jesus says about nobody being good but God. What Wintery says is in line with what Jesus says. If you take issue with the idea of us all not being good, don’t blame Wintery. He’s just reporting it. Jesus is the one you need to take it up with.
Also, look inside your own heart. Are you always good? Honestly? I’m not.
LikeLike
Mary,
How do you do it? I mean, every time I have something to say on an issue, I just have to look, lo and behold you would have already said it!! Creepy!! :)
LikeLike
She has lobsterous power of lobstery.
LikeLike
I think the distinction that needs to be made here is that the father in the parable is a metaphor for God and that, even though he sees the two boys as separate (one “good” one “not so good”), he welcomes the one back who has wasted all he has, puts a ring on his finger, and loves him just as much as the other kid. It goes back to the original question in this post: why do bad things happen to good people and vice versa? The prodigal son in Jesus story is “bad” but he is treated royally when he returns home, pissing off his other more dutiful brother. This is a case of the sun shining on the just and the unjust. You might argue this with me, but Jesus creates a lot of metaphors with God being impartial in his love. That’s all I’m saying.
As to Christ’s saying there’s only one good and that is God, I also note that the sentence does not conclude “and therefore, the rest of you are all sinners.” He could have. Instead, he makes a statement about the necessity of putting love of God above love of riches and tells the guy to sell his stuff and give it to the poor. Translation: poor people can enter the kingdom of heaven and rich people can’t. If no one is good, that would be the conclusion of the story, but it isn’t. The original question was how to have eternal life, and Jesus tells him. If no one was good, if there was no such thing as eternal life, jesus wouldn’t have told him to sell his goods. He would have told him to get lost.
LikeLike
I don’t think it is really one “good” one and “not so good”. It’s really one “bad” and “not so bad”. The first son was dutiful but he wasn’t entirely selfless about his obedience to his father. In fact, I would go so far as to say that he held a grudge. Everyone is so focused on the prodigal son that they fail to realize the shortcomings of the elder son. When his father celebrates his younger brother’s return, he points out that he worked as ‘slave’ and that he wasn’t even given a goat to have a feast with his friends. He wasn’t doing everything because of the goodness of his heart, he knew he will have rewards so just grudgingly accepted it. And when he thought there would be a threat to his share being split again, he gets angry.Yes, angry and defiant! Not my idea of a good person really. The parables Jesus said are never one-dimensional and every single character has it’s own complexity. God being impartial in his love doesn’t make us all good.
As for Christ not giving a coda to His statement, don’t you think it was obvious? If God is only good, the rest are all sinners. Do we really need everything spelt out for us? If there were good people, they wouldn’t need Christ to save them. They can do it themselves by their goodness. The answer to this question is there in the passage it self. When disciples ask Him who can be saved then, He says, “What is humanly impossible is possible for God.”. So there is your answer!
I don’t think any of us are good people by just being Christians. Do we all love God above everything? Can we truly say it? Do we love everyone else like ourselves? Are we as perfect as Christ? We haven’t obeyed His biggest commandments, how then can we be good?
LikeLike
Shalini, this is too peculiar for words. – and rather cool. :) Your response to McSpinster is just what I wanted to say… [cue eerie lobster music]
McSpinster, in addition to what Shalini has said, I’d like to point out that it’s a simple matter of logic that if only God is good, then everyone else is not good. In the language of set theory, there is a set, Good, of all persons who are good. Jesus says that the only element of that set is God. Therefore, all other persons do not belong to the Good set. All others are in the Not Good set. Simple.
LikeLike
@Shalini:
I remember when Shalini started commenting on this blog last year, and her comments then were merely way above average. Now I really enjoy every single comment she writes, because they are AWESOME. I was just telling her yesterday how far she has come on improving her Christian worldview across the board. And not only is she good at Scripture and apologetics, but she is INCREDIBLY good at politics, current events, economics, social issues, foreign policy, etc. I really really appreciate reading your comments Shalini, and that goes for Mary, too.
@Mary:
“Cue eerie lobster music”
Oh my goodness, I fell off my chair laughing. Thank you. I really really needed that laugh.
I changed my Facebook status to “cue eerie lobster music”, by the way.
Oooooh! You’re using set theory! That makes you awesome!
LikeLike
That was sweet of you, Wintery!! Though I do think you are exaggerating a bit there, that really meant a lot! Thank you! :)
LOL@Mary!! You guys and your lobstrocities!! Hilarious!! :D
LikeLike
Oh no, he couldn’t be exaggerating. After all, we think the same things after each other. For such awesomeness, you deserve to be made an honourary lobster. ;-)
LikeLike
My pleasure, oh Lobsterous One. :D Set theory is my favourite part of mathematics.
LikeLike
WK, here’s your eerie lobster music:
The Dance of the Knights. How appropriate. :]
LikeLike
I thought that was “In the Hall of the Mountain King”? Ooops, no you’re right. I get those mixed up.
Wow that is eerie music!
LikeLike
“In the Hall of the Mountain King” is cool too. In fact the whole Peer Gynt Suite is cool.
But Prokofiev’s music always has a slightly quirky/eerie feel. He post-dates Grieg by a bit too.
LikeLike
Just vs. unjust are relative terms concerning human conduct. We might say today, “decent folk” vs. the “not-so-decent”.
Or, they could be those God considers just, even though they are, objectively sinners.
The Bible has layers of meaning. Context means a lot.
Weren’t Elizabeth and Zacharias considered righteous?
“They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.”
“Both of them were upright in the sight of God”
“Both of them were good people and pleased the Lord God by obeying all that he had commanded.”
Yet, clearly, when Jesus says that no one is good but God, his saying “trumps” these other statements; it is clear he is speaking at an ontological level while these other statements are how God considers us, probably in relative terms.
Finally, there’s the consideration that Elizabeth and Zacharias were themselves recipients of our gracious God’s prevenient grace.
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
Only thou art holy; there is none beside thee, perfect in power, in love and purity.
LikeLike
Christ saying that none in heaven is good is like Paul’s statement in Corinthians II: it’s a way of distinguishing the human sense of good from the divine, the earthly from the spiritual:
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
He goes on to say:
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
“We all” means us. If we derive our sufficiency of God, if we behold the glory of the Lord, we are changed into that same glory. But it’s a spiritual glory, a spiritual goodness, not a human one. I’m not sure which type of “goodness” Wintery was saying was absent, but Paul, at least, isn’t lamenting the divine variety and our ability to reflect it.
LikeLike
I know this is a late post and you all have moved on but….I understand what you all are saying because I am a Christian and I think for the most part I get it…but my question is how do we explain to a non-Christian that if there is a God why do 8 year old kids get cancer?
LikeLike
Ken,
Sleep (as the bible describes loss of the physical body) comes to everybody. Whether it be through, disease, accident, intentional or unintentional means.
It is all a question of timing.
When children die of poverty, war, disease. or sexually abused, molested, bought, sold, and other horrendous acts of violence. The real question is “why does harm come to the defenseless / innocent ” ? Btw, if a child had b-fast today, bed, house, clothes – then that child is far ahead of 75% of the worlds population.
It is about perception and reality ( btw I spent 10 years in organ transplantation and have seen a lot of cases and a few “second chances” given while the majority are turned away).
Back to perception & reality.
The media though tv,movies, print, magazines, internet, and others creates a “false reality” of which is self centered and “me” driven. This “diet” over the course of decades has warped the perception of Americans ( we think EVERYONE in the world lives like we do).
As a result, when “life happens” as you mentioned. It comes as smashing of hammer through a plate glass window. It is simply a “false reality” though we know things that this happen to OTHER PEOPLE but when it happens to family member or loved one – it hits home and the false reality is shattered. Sometimes very quickly or drawn out over time.
For a good dose of reality – go walk the adult and pediatric cancer wards at the hospital and notice the difference in outlook between the adults and kids ( the kids bring to me tears- I have to excuse myself – all they want to do is play and they are stuck inside).
Life is tough and full of tribulation and trials – this is a guarantee for EVERYONE – no one is excluded. It comes in the form of income, relationships, and health (ie Jobs trial – he got all 3 at once).
Response is everything. I have seen Christians get mad at God for letting their loved die of diseases or some tragedy.
A really great story is on Kenneth P. Moritsugu the previous acting Surgeon General. His daughter was tragically killed in Spain. He allowed his daughters organ to donated while in Spain. Not only did this save other lives but moved the ENTIRE country in regards to organ donation ( Spain is one of the top 3 in the world). This man took what cames along and turned the heart of a ENTIRE nation. Whoa…
Why God takes little ones or allows evil to occur is a question best asked to Him directly. If a person is really serious, I suggest asking Him directly – God will answer them accordingly. In addition, He didn’t spare His own Son the abuse and humiliation of the cross. I do know sometimes answers eventually come and do know they will whether it be in this lifetime or the next.
The Christian perspective is truly unique along faiths of the world. It has the RESURRECTION of “Christ in the flesh” as well as “resurrection and eternal life in the flesh on the earth” in peace with no disease, war, famine etc.
This is the original gospel and the hope of mankind- restored relationships with God and others in the flesh on the earth.
LikeLike