Knight and Rose Show – Episode 3: What we found in American churches

Welcome to episode 3 of the Knight and Rose podcast! Today’s episode is the first of a 3-part series about the American church. Neither Rose nor I were raised in Christian homes. If you like episode 3, please subscribe to the podcast, and subscribe to our new Youtube channel. We would really appreciate it if you can leave us a 5-star review on Apple iTunes / Apple Podcasts.

Podcast description:

Christian apologists Wintery Knight and Desert Rose discuss apologetics, policy, culture, relationships, and more. Each episode equips you with evidence you can use to boldly engage anyone, anywhere. We train our listeners to become Christian secret agents. Action and adventure guaranteed. 30-45 minutes per episode. New episode every week.

Episode 3:

Episode 3 Summary:

What does church look like for someone who wasn’t raised in the church? Neither Wintery Knight nor Desert Rose were raised in Christian homes. In this episode, we explain what we found in campus ministries and churches in America. We look at how well churches are doing at producing Christians who accept the core beliefs of the Christian worldview. We take a look at the church’s approaches to evangelism and discipleship. We also look at the history of evangelical Protestantism in America.

Speaker biographies

Wintery Knight is a black legal immigrant. He is a senior software engineer by day, and an amateur Christian apologist by night. He has been blogging at since January of 2009, covering news, policy and Christian worldview issues.

Desert Rose did her undergraduate degree in public policy, and then worked for a conservative Washington lobbyist organization. She also has a graduate degree from a prestigious evangelical seminary. She is active in Christian apologetics as a speaker, author, and teacher.


Regarding the history of the evangelical church in America, I added a book to the References below by Dr. J. P. Moreland that did me a lot of good growing up. The first edition was published in 1997. I linked the new edition from 2012 below. My friend Andrew calls this book “LYGWYM”. See if you can guess why. This book contains Dr. Moreland’s famous “Wonmug” illustration.


American Worldview Inventory, 2021 (PDF) by Arizona Christian University

Most adult US Christians don’t believe Holy Spirit is real: study by Christian Post

Two in Five Christians Are Not Engaged in Discipleship by Barna Group

Leftist Control Of Universities Is At Core Of Education Decline by Dennis Prager

Pro and Con: The Seeker-Sensitive Church Movement by Mark Mittelberg (supports seeker-sensitive) and Dr. Douglas Groothuis (opposes seeker-sensitive) We agree with Groothuis.

How The Federal Government Used Evangelical Leaders To Spread Covid Propaganda To Churches by Megan Basham

Socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Says Jesus Was a Refugee: Is She Right? by Wintery Knight

Love Your God with All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the Soul by Dr. J. P. Moreland

Review Of Apologetics Book By Pastor Shows Where Church Needs To Improve by Wintery Knight

How Does Church Appear To Someone Raised In A Non-Christian Home? by Wintery Knight

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Music attribution:

Strength Of The Titans by Kevin MacLeod

2 thoughts on “Knight and Rose Show – Episode 3: What we found in American churches”

  1. Thanks for the post! (I didn’t grow up in the church either)

    I’ve also heard the “unless I experience X, I don’t really know…” argument before. (Actually I publicly debated one of the members of the alphabet-soup community who tended to push this. He was pretty active in getting female freshmen to ‘be experimental’ and try lots of things to see if they thought it was okay.) I think I was a bit blunt with him and suggested that I don’t need to try dog scats to know I don’t those, so that led me to a question:
    How would I know something is good for me or bad for me?
    (It was a rhetorical question, but I was trying to get people to think.)

    Obviously we can identify the chemistry and biology — the science — behind scats. This is factual. They’re not good for me.

    Then we can talk about pragmatism, but I usually leave that for later. (It’s true -> therefore it works, not it works, therefore it’s true.)

    I’ve observed a lot of people leave the faith as well — even in my alma mater (not a Christian university) — one of the deans told me that around 40% who enter self-identify as Christian. However, observing those who are regular at either weekly worship and/or Christian fellowships — that number is around 10%, and also leaving university, it’s about that number.

    Now these are symptoms. I’ve sometimes daydreamed (or maybe fantasized) what I might say if I were asked to be the Registration Day worship speaker.

    A reasonable outline would include:

    Above all, worship the Lord your God — and how does that look?
    Prioritizing God
    (yes, I too felt like a kid in a candy store when I got to university: so many different options to explore!)

    However, it’s important to think about it in terms of God:
    What would God have me do?
    Be the best student I can be, be excellent in my studies, be faithful with all of the little things
    Nurture my faith, take it seriously, find avenues to advance my faith
    Develop the Christian worldview, the Christian mind
    Spend time with God’s people e.g., in studying the Bible, in developing the Christian mind, for prayer, etc.
    Be deliberate about seeking out wise Christians, strong Christians (getting to your point about discipling / mentoring)
    Apologetics and Evangelism

    Avoiding Immorality
    …or anything that is deleterious to my relationship with God

    I think WK+Rose are correct about the Second Great Awakening: we also have to remember that this was before there were sound systems, so they were into a preaching style known as Elocution (over-dramatizing, anti-intellectual — assumed people couldn’t read or hear). I think people like Alexander and Thomas Campbell and others of the Restoration Movement were also instrumental in abandoning credalism (they felt creeds were unnecessary and/or at worst, divisive).

    Here’s a tidbit on Elocution:
    Also: (Sanders’ School Speaker)

    People focused on emotions, absolutely — “you felt convicted” and therefore you felt the need to give your life at the altar call. However, there was a lack of ongoing discipleship — sanctification. So people would go into this weird cycle … go to a Tent Revival, get convicted by emotional preaching, decide one wasn’t really converted, “repent” and respond to an altar call, go on your merry way (and within a few days to a few weeks fall back into your bad habits), repeat.

    As to just singing / throwing Scripture at people, unfortunately this smacks of “magic.” Like say this incantation or speak these words/phrases (even if from the Bible), something “magical” will happen. Cough.

    Liked by 1 person

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