ACLU fascists thwarted while trying to jail Christians for saying prayer

Story from CNN. (H/T My friend Ken)

Excerpt:

A judge has ruled in favor of two Florida school administrators who faced contempt charges for saying a prayer at a school luncheon, according to a group that helped represent them.

U.S. District Judge M.C. Rodgers ruled Thursday in favor of Frank Lay, principal of Pace High School in Pace, Florida, and school athletic director Robert Freeman, the Liberty Counsel said.

Lay and Freeman could have faced up to six months in prison and fines if convicted. They were accused of violating a consent decree banning county school employees from initiating prayers during school events.

[…]But the American Civil Liberties Union, whose lawsuit led to the consent decree, has maintained students have a right to be free from administrators who foist their personal religious beliefs on them.

Fascism is the idea that the state suppresses the inalienable rights of its citizenry by substituting the values and duties of the government (the rulers) for the values and duties of individuals.

Here’s how it works:

  • Inalienable human rights are granted by the Creator
  • Only the Creator of the universe can grant inalienable human rights to his creatures
  • Freedom of religious expression is self-evidently an inalienable human right
  • Christians exercise their freedom of religious expression
  • Atheists in the ACLU don’t believe in a Creator
  • If there is no Creator, then “rights” are just social conventions that vary by time and place
  • So atheists in the ACLU cannot ground inalienable human rights
  • Without an inalienable right to freedom of religious expression, suppressing the religious liberty others is permissible
  • Atheists in the ACLU can use government to silence, suppress and imprison unwilling Christians
  • Atheists in the ACLU are offended by the free expression of Christianity in public
  • Therefore, atheists in the ACLU find it rational to suppress the human rights of their neighbors using state coercion

There is no such thing as human rights in an atheistic “survival of the fittest” universe.

Atheists in the ACLU prefer to use the state to suppress any public religious expression, because the public expression of religion makes them feel badly. The feelings of atheists is sufficient to justify silencing, suppressing, imprisoning and in even killing people who make them feel bad. They are not so much interesting in debating the merits of the cosmological argument – they just want to shut down dissent so they can feel comfortable about their atheism.

Here is my entire series of posts explaining why moral behavior is irrational on atheism. Their worldview just doesn’t ground objective moral values, objective moral duties, self-sacrifice and the significance of moral decisions. And when the chips are down, they show their fascist colors. Atheists want to dismiss the claims of objective morality so they can pursue pleasure, and they don’t want you using your freedoms to remind them of their own depravity.

UPDATE: Kreitsauce is from the panhandle and writes this comment below:

I’m from the Florida panhandle, and we thought this whole thing was ridiculous because:

1. Lay and Freeman have done an unbelievable amount of good for the school and the community. It’s real Christianity making a difference that has had such a profound impact.

2. The school already teaches a Bible elective.

3. The school meeting where the prayer took place was housed in a church.

4. The prayer was spontaneous, not a willful violation of criminal law.

5. All protests have been peaceful, even in the face of opposition. The believers have mostly been praying and singing hymns.

6. Lay and Freeman have strong student, community, and parent support.

He also links to this youtube video:

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5 thoughts on “ACLU fascists thwarted while trying to jail Christians for saying prayer”

  1. I’m from the Florida panhandle, and we thought this whole thing was ridiculous because:

    1. Lay and Freeman have done an unbelievable amount of good for the school and the community. It’s real Christianity making a difference that has had such a profound impact.

    2. The school already teaches a Bible elective.

    3. The school meeting where the prayer took place was housed in a church.

    4. The prayer was spontaneous, not a willful violation of criminal law.

    5. All protests have been peaceful, even in the face of opposition. The believers have mostly been praying and singing hymns.

    6. Lay and Freeman have strong student, community, and parent support.

    Here’s a Youtube vid of local coverage.

    1. It’s amazing how self-centered secular humanists can blindly suppress the religion that results in so many good works. My view is that all of western civilization, including science and capitalism, sits on the foundation of Christianity. Just think how the short-sighted moral relativism of anti-Christian bigots results in tragedies like the Massachusetts adoption agencies being shut down. And now Obama wants to violate the conscience rights of Christian doctors and nurses by forcing them to perform abortions. The staggering stupidity and evil on the secular left never ceases to astonish me. Killing the goose that laid the golden egg so to speak, due to a lack of reflection on exactly which worldview grounds the good works that everyone appreciates so much. They’ll find out soon enough. When we’re gone, they’ll have to construct their own morality and they’ll find out exactly how well atheistic “morality” works out when they brush up against their atheistic neighbors.

  2. It has only been by fraud and coercion that in the last 50 yrs ‘no establishment’ has trumped ‘free exercise’ in US jurisprudence.

    It was never meant that way. No establishment, in the first amendment clause, was always formulated to be in service to a citizens free exercise – the religious conscience was so sacrosanct, the religious contribution to public life so important that the Founders sought its protection from the state with its ‘no establishment’.

    Crazy inversion has distorted the nation’s entire public life.

    Religion and belief was supposed to run wild to be a vigorous contributor in the public square – but through great ingenuity and itching scratching hatred a vast machinery has been built to convince the credulous religion (Christianity in particular – it is always about Christianity), by nature, ought to be excluded from public participation.

    Happens day by day very stealthily, bolt by bolt, until the religio-political order resembles and serves the fierce and energetic secularizers.

    All this doesn’t just happen which is why your efforts Wintery are so valuable.

    Keep up the good work.

    Fr RJNeuhaus is succinct and a great help on religious freedom.

    Best wishes.

    P.S. – we agree there is no such thing as neutrality. The secularizers impose and promote non-theism under the guise of neutrality. They are vandals and liars.

  3. Wow, so many things wrong with this article. One, these employees are governmental employees at a governmental event. Nothing stops or hinders them from praying on their own. If someone wants to pray, then by all means pray. Second, most atheists don’t believe that rights are just a “social convention” but a product of natural forces that led to human beings who yearn for rights and liberty.

    1. Thanks for your comment. What you are advocating is the end of the right to free speech. You have a view of what people should and should not be allowed to talk about, which is based on your worldview (secularism). Secularism is the idea that religion should not form any part of a person’s public life. The problem with that it is that it repudiates authentic religious practice. Secularists believe this is OK because they are atheists.

      Atheism is a pre-scientific worldview that does not take into account scientific evidence, such as the big bang, fine-tuning, biological information, Cambrian explosion, etc. Your atheistic worldview does not ground objective human rights like the right to free speech and the right to religious expression. And that is why you find it so easy to deny other people fundamental rights using state coercion.

      The people in the story have a different worldview, theism, which grounds objective human rights. You are seeking to impose your secular worldview and values on others by force of government. You are seeking to curtail their liberty so that your feelings and pursuit of pleasure in this life will not be hindered by feelings of guilt caused by their open profession of belief in God and objective moral values and obligations.

      On your second point, it seems to me that atheists belief that rights, moral values and moral duties are just the subjective preferences of the majority of a society in some place and time. And that is why people on the secular left find it so easy to set aside God-given inalienable rights. Because if there is no God to ground human rights, then there are no objective human rights. And you can see how that has worked out in various totalitarian regimes, such as the one admired by by Obama’s White Hosue communication director. It also explains why atheists have so much difficult in acting morally – whenever they feel obligated to act morally by their conscience, they can just dismiss moral obligations as the conventions of the society where they happen to live at this time. Objectively, there are no moral values and duties, on atheism.

      Free will, a necessary condition for moral action, is also inconsistent with atheism. So not only do you have no foundation for affirming human rights, but no foundation for acting morality, either. If you do anything wrong, it’s not your fault – it;s the fault of society. It’s a very dangerous worldview, because it means that individuals are not responsible and that government needs to step in and take control to improve “conditions”. But atheism is not just dangerous, it is also false. And, moreover, it is knowably false. Those who embrace atheism do so because it allows them to have freedom from moral constraints. This leads to the suppression of the rights of others because you can’t even bear to hear that you might be wrong.

      What atheists do is pursue pleasure in this life. It is not rational for them to do anything other than pursue pleasure. So there will never be a time when an atheist is able to set aside the pursuit of pleasure to “do the right thing”. On atheism, there is no objective right thing to do. There is no ability to act freely because we are just machines made out of meat. And in the end, it will not matter whether we deny pursuit of pleasure to do the right thing, on atheism. We will still end up dead in the ground, just like everyone else. Atheism is the complete anti-morality state of mind, which is why atheist regimes murdered 100 million people in the 20th century alone. And the mass murder of millions is still ongoing today with issues like abortion (and sex-selection abortions, no less) and DDT-bans.

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