Investigation

There are Roman Catholics in my family but I’m not one: why not?

In this post, I explain why I’m not Roman Catholic. And I also explain how Protestant Christians arrive at their beliefs. We’ll start with J. Warner Wallace on Purgatory, then I’ll go second.

Purgatory

Here’s the first article from Cold Case Christianity, by the Master of the Evidence J. Warner Wallace. He writes about the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory, and his experience with studying and then rejecting it.

Here is his introduction:

The notion of purgatory assumes many of us die with unforgiven sins that need to be purged from our account; some of us are not good enough to go to heaven, but not bad enough to go to hell. Purgatory, therefore, is a temporary, intermediate place (or state of being) where good deeds and works can be performed in order to purge our impurity prior to our final destiny with God. Although millions of Catholics believe purgatory to be a reality, the idea needs to be tested in light of the Scripture. Is purgatory something we, as Bible believing Christians, should accept as true?

He’s got a stack of Bible verses to make two points against Purgatory: first, that Jesus’ death on the cross is sufficient to atone for all our rebellion against God, and we don’t need to endure any suffering or punishment to supplement it. And second, the teaching about the afterlife in the Bible says that believers are immediately ushered into the presence of God after they die (without resurrection bodies, yet), while unbelievers are separated away from God.

Here’s what he says about the first point:

Our Salvation Isn’t Based On Our Good Works
According to the Biblical doctrine of Salvation, forgiveness is not based on the good works of the believer. For this reason, deeds or works performed for those in purgatory are both unnecessary and ineffectual:

Romans 3:21-24, 27-28
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus… Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.

Our Salvation Is Based On Jesus’ Work on the Cross
According to the Biblical doctrine of Salvation, Jesus’ work on the cross (His blood) purifies us from allsin. For this reason, there isn’t a lingering sin problem requiring the existence of a place like purgatory:

Titus 2:13-14
…we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

1John 1:7b
…the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

1John 1:9b
…he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 10:14
…because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Our Salvation Has, Therefore, Already Been Guaranteed
According to the Biblical doctrine of Salvation, Jesus has already purified and purged believers of sin based on our faith in Him. For this reason, there is no need for a place like Purgatory where additional purging must be performed…

[…]The Biblical doctrine of Salvation clearly eliminates the need for purgatory.

I was never able to find anything in the Bible to support purgatory. It’s a very very late doctrine that was unknown to the early church until the late 2nd / early 3rd century, where it is spoken about by a handful of people. But lots of weird doctrines were creeping up on the fringe around that time, so we shouldn’t be surprised… the point is that they have no support from the Bible, and not in the community of believers for the first 150 years after the death of Jesus.

The bodily assumption of Mary

Anyway, my turn now. The Roman Catholic church teaches that Mary was “bodily assumed” into Heaven. Let’s see if that is in the Bible or in the early church.

Here’s what I found:

  1. To be a Roman Catholic, you need to believe in Papal infallibility in matters of dogma.
  2. In 1950, the Pope pronounced the assumption of Mary to be infallible dogma.
  3. This pronouncement was solicited by a petition featuring over 8 million signatures.
  4. There is no historical record of this doctrine in the Bible.
  5. No early church father mentions the assumption until 590 AD.
  6. Documents dated 377 AD state that no one knows how Mary died.
  7. The assumption appears for the first time in an apocryphal gospel dated about 495 AD.

Data

I only cite Roman Catholic sources for my facts.

6. “But if some think us mistaken, let them search the Scriptures. They will not find Mary’s death; they will not find whether she died or did not die; they will not find whether she was buried or was not buried … Scripture is absolutely silent [on the end of Mary] … For my own part, I do not dare to speak, but I keep my own thoughts and I practice silence … The fact is, Scripture has outstripped the human mind and left [this matter] uncertain … Did she die, we do not know … Either the holy Virgin died and was buried … Or she was killed … Or she remained alive, since nothing is impossible with God and He can do whatever He desires; for her end no-one knows.” (Epiphanius, Panarion, Haer. 78.10-11, 23. Cited by Juniper Carol, O.F.M. ed.,Mariology, Vol. II (Milwaukee: Bruce, 1957), pp. 139-40).

7. “The idea of the bodily assumption of Mary is first expressed in certain transitus–narratives of the fifth and sixth centuries. Even though these are apocryphal they bear witness to the faith of the generation in which they were written despite their legendary clothing. The first Church author to speak of the bodily ascension of Mary, in association with an apocryphal transitus B.M.V., is St. Gregory of Tours.” (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma(Rockford: Tan, 1974), pp. 209–210).

It should be noted that the apocryphal gospel in which the doctrine of the assumption of Mary first appeared was condemned as heretical by two Popes in the 5th and 6th centuries. However, I was not able to find a CATHOLIC source for this fact, so I deliberately chose not to use it in my case.

Conclusion

The first thing I want to say is that the Bible is not the only place you look to decide these issues. You also look in church history, and you are looking for a clear chain of custody of the doctrine as far back as it can go. Purgatory and the perpetual virginity of Mary have some track record, but the bodily assumption of Mary is just nowhere – not in the Bible, not in the Early Church fathers. So that’s the silver bullet against Roman Catholicism, since they made it “infallible”.

This post is more directed to non-Christians to sort of show you how we do our homework. I am the first Protestant in my family. We have half the family who is Muslim, and the other half mostly Hindu, with some Catholic. I had to debate all these people growing up, and I wiped the floor with them. It was not even close. I simply settled on the beliefs that allowed me to win every argument, every time. That’s how you do religion. If you have to go against your whole family in order to be right, you do it. It’s not good to be wrong about things just because that’s what your family believes. These things were not pushed hard on me by my parents, I studied them on my own in order to win arguments. After a while of winning, I found myself acting consistently with what I was arguing for. Although that might sound really weird to you, that’s probably the right way to do this. Don’t listen to parents and church, find your own way forward by winning arguments, and believing only what the evidence supports.

Although most people think that if I had kids, I’d bully them into my beliefs, I actually would not. Because that’s not what worked on me. What really works is fighting about evidence, welcoming questions, and allowing differences of opinion. Being free to pursue truth is more important in the long run than coercing your kids to act nicely.

11 thoughts on “There are Roman Catholics in my family but I’m not one: why not?”

  1. Another issue I have with some in the RCC (and other churches sometimes too) is it seems from talking to some they put man’s traditions over the years on par with Scripture, and don’t see Scripture alone as the final authority. I cannot abide that. I don’t think the Lord has a problem with traditions per se, except when men give them practically the same standing as scripture. They don’t seem to see either how the world’s own philosophy has seeped into the church and been accepted as “God’s will.” Where, for example, does the Word say family over all? That, I think is a Roman concept. The Word actually says our family of believers is more important than blood family. Good luck though getting clergy to actually teach that. They seem mostly about numbers and money , and that means coercing everyone to marry and have kids.

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  2. I, too, was raised in a Roman Catholic family, but, at age 26, someone, using the C. S. Lewis “Trilemma,” provoked me to read the Bible for myself. (I’m 72 now.) My faith weathered my family’s opposition because 1) I was an adult, and 2) I could never find a way to make myself go against any point that could be clearly recognized when reading the Bible.

    As for what happens after death, the Old Testament teaches that everyone went to Sheol (Hades), and the New Testament teaches that, because of Jesus’ work on our behalf, everyone goes to heaven. (As you rightly say above, there is nothing in the Bible to support the doctrine of Purgatory.) I have found many churchgoers to disagree with me about everyone going to heaven, but one of the odd things is that hardly any of them know about Sheol. If they don’t know where dead people were going before Jesus, how can they claim to know where dead people are going after Jesus?

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    1. 5 This is evidence of God’s righteous judgment, to make you worthy of the kingdom of God, for which in fact you are suffering. 6 For it is right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to you who are being afflicted to give rest together with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. 8 With flaming fire he will mete out punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 when he comes to be glorified among his saints and admired on that day among all who have believed—and you did in fact believe our testimony. 11 And in this regard we pray for you always, that our God will make you worthy of his calling and fulfill by his power your every desire for goodness and every work of faith, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

      Biblical Studies Press. (2019). The NET Bible (Second Edition, 2 Th 1:5–12). Thomas Nelson.

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      1. Theophilus, the passage you quote was fulfilled in the 1st century according to the timetable laid down by Jesus and His disciples for the coming of the kingdom of God (aka the Second Coming of Christ).

        I posted this comment a couple of days ago and included with it links to two books I have written justifying and explaining biblically what I am saying. However, the comment has not been approved by this site’s moderator – I suppose because of the links – so I am re-sending my comment without the links so that you will at least know that I am not ignoring your comment.

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        1. Are you saying that Jesus returned and punished the Thessalonians who were persecuting the church as Paul describes here? I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything like that. I want to make sure I understand you correctly in what you are claiming about this passage.

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          1. Yes, but not as a one-off judgment; rather, as a part of the judgment that came with the day of the Lord (aka the coming of the kingdom of God, the Second Coming of Christ, etc).

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  3. I have some sympathies and respect for Catholicism. But so far in my study it has appeared that whatever case they make against protestantism is even stronger with the Eastern Orthodox while any case they make against the E.O. is stronger with Protestants.

    Also like a lot of systems, it seems like a bad idea gets lodged into it, it becomes practically impossible to get rid of.

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  4. Yep, there are 95 reasons I’m not Catholic. Purgatory mocks the cross, as if you are telling Jesus that what he did just isn’t enough to save you.

    And I saw this creepy post on FB yesterday. You can’t read the Bible and come away with nonsense like this.

    “Tonight is the night that Mary passes through your house. This is a Novena for those who believe in the power of Prayer.
    Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen!
    Make your special request. Please don’t break the Novena, just copy and past on your timeline.
    Praying today for anyone struggling in anyway, battling illness, in mourning ,fighting fear, anxieties of the future and every prayer request.
    We all need the power of prayers.
    In The Name of The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen”

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  5. I agree. I also find location of Vatican doesn’t fit well.

    If Christianity has a home location it is Jerusalem and the various lands where the Bible is located and Jesus also walked and lived and the church spread out from there.

    It is seems more like losing Jerusalem and the Jewish expulsion by Rome after the temple was destroyed removed the main location of the church.

    But I have never seen anything that really indicates definitively that one leader alone was above all other. A necessary belief to a Roman Catholic. The pope is the hope of highest regional bishop and he even became granted powers to hear from God at the level of new testament apostles and idea I reject

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  6. Catholicism also seems to have a different view of the fall somehow. They don’t accept the total depravity and seem to beleive some goodness exists in people, that allow for their works to somehow count toward salvation.

    An idea I reject as it undermines the work of christ as being sufficient as works and prayers count to get you out of punishment in purgatory

    Purgatory also means that we pay some of the cost to earn salvation and it undermines the absolute beauty of how by grace we receive the unearned gift of salbation

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