I like to watch shows where people debate how modern radical feminism has affected dating, marriage and parenting. One show I watch clips of is the @Whatever podcast. The co-host is a very conservative Christian. Recently, one of the liberal women on the panel walked off the set when the co-host said he would not have bedroom fun with a trans woman.
I think Ben Shapiro and Matt Walsh both played the audio from that exchange on their popular podcasts, which you can see here:
Daily Caller wrote about it, too. I know that these shows have vulgar language, but I enjoy watching them because it’s fun to see feminists running into the consequences of their own choices.
Anyway, Daily Wire host Michael Knowles showed up to debate the lady who walked off the @Whatever set. They call her “RageQuit Keeko”. For those of you who do not play games, a rage quit is when someone is playing a multi-player game, and loses, and then quits the game in a rage. I watched the whole 5-hour debate with Knowles and Keeko on Saturday, while playing a new game that Rose bought me. (Saturday is for playing games, walking, doing chores and lifting weights!) The speakers covered a lot of interesting topics. I never got bored.
I want to embed a few clips from the 5-hour show, then talk about one in particular. (Warning: some very vulgar language at times – not for kids!)
And this is the one I care about the most – about the existence of God:
So, the first thing to point out is that Michael Knowles is 1) Catholic and 2) has a degree in English. So you’re not going to get the sophisticated arguments of William Lane Craig, or the discussion of scientific evidence of Stephen C. Meyer, etc. out of him. Most Catholic “apologists” just repeat slogans from Aquinas, and that’s what Michael does. (There are some exceptions, like Jay Richards and Michael Behe) But the funny thing is, even these simple, outdated Catholic slogans – using one and two syllable words – are literally incomprehensible to “RageQuit Keeko”. She dismisses them as world-salad at best, or insanity at worst. It’s like she’s never heard a single argument for the truth of Christianity (e.g. – the kalam argument, or cosmic fine-tuning) that didn’t already assume the Bible was true, or use religious-sounding language.
So why blog on this? Well, elsewhere in the debate, Keeko explains that she was raised Catholic, and then threw it all away. And what’s interesting is that her reasons appear to be 1) a revulsion for Christians judging other people for their sin, and 2) a variety of intellectual objections to Christian truth claims. Whatever happened in her Catholic upbringing, it sure didn’t work to make her resistant to the culture. Did anyone have a defense of pro-life, or a defense of man-woman marriage, or a defense of pre-marital abstinence? Unlikely. Did anyone have answers to her intellectual objections to the Bible, God or Jesus? Very unlikely.
The response to the secular culture from most popular Bible-talkers is just ineffectual hand-wringing (Al Mohler, Alistair Begg) or sophisticated-sounding capitulation (John Piper, Tim Keller). Nobody seems to know how to make a logical argument for core Christian truth claims, and then back it up with mainstream science or history. No one has even read J. Warner Wallace or Sean McDowell, much less Stephen C. Meyer or N. T. Wright. Most people in church just talk about Disney, Netflix, vacations, sports, etc. The best Christians authors to read, they say, are the dumbed-down ones who make you feel good. After all, isn’t Christianity about feelings and community? If Keeko encountered this approach to discussing the truth of Christianity, then no wonder she left.
So in the 5-hour episode, I noticed a few arguments against Christianity raised by the young secular left feminists:
- any talk about religion is literally nonsense talk
- there are many different religions, so how could any one be true?
- the Bible has been changed many times
- all objections to abortion or gay rights are religious in nature
- religion is not necessary for me to feel good / be liked
- religious people divorce at the same rates as non-religious people
(Some of those might be from other clips, I watched so many while playing my new game). In general, I think it would be a good idea for people raised in the church to understand that Christianity is not intended to make them feel good or be liked. They seem to think that if they can feel good and be liked without it, then they don’t need it.
The point is that these objections are not being addressed head-on by the church. When you attend church, there is no question and answer. The pastor speaks, and everyone says Amen. The choir sings. There is no homework. No one discusses any of these topics at church or at home. And if you go to Bible study, it’s feminist leftist Beth Moore asking “how does this verse make you feel?”. All of the simple objections that young people eventually encounter in the culture can easily be defended using simple books from people like J. Warner Wallace, Sean McDowell, Paul Copan, Frank Turek, Scott Klusendorf, Katy Faust, Michael Licona, etc. I can recommend so many 200 page introductory-level books on these topics, but the pastors never seem to want to equip the flocks.
And what about the parents? Most parents (who are the main defenders of Christianity for their children) again find a way to make the status quo sound pious and virtuous. Parents always have a reason why the best way to protect their kids from the culture is to pray about it, or to do fun activities, or send them to youth group. The answer can never be “let’s sit down and read this Sean McDowell book chapter by chapter, and talk about it.” They always want to spiritualize doing whatever it is that they want to do “God told me to pray about your doubts.” I just find it ridiculous that parents and pastors think that children can develop a Christian worldview without settling questions about God’s existence and Jesus’ resurrection and objections to Christianity using the ordinary tools of an educated, practical, private-sector-working adult: reason and evidence.
It’s very annoying to me. Parents and pastors act as though church attendance is going through the roof. They think that Christians are improving their worldviews to be more Biblical. How is that happening? It must be happening by magic, because it sure isn’t happening by effort and planning. When are we going to accept that the Billy Graham fundamentalist piety way of raising Christian kids isn’t working, and we’re going to have to settle down and read some science, history and philosophy in order to counter these objections that come out of the mouths of these young adults?
This is why Christianity has lost its place in the public square.
7 thoughts on “Michael Knowles debates young secular left feminists for 5 hours on @Whatever podcast”
This is why I’ve had a lot of appreciation for Jordan B Peterson. As I keep trying to explain to people, unless you’ve gone outside the choir, it’s hard to understand just how allergic so many people are nowadays to religion, especially Christianity. (they’ll humor what they see as other “brown” religions but don’t believe those any more than Christianity)
And I use the term “allergic” because that’s really what it is – like an allergy where anything even hinting at the divine (no matter the identity) just brings up revulsion and rejection like a violent sneezing fit. You can’t even begin to get into arguments because their hearts get “stuffed up” and closed off just like your head does when the pollen flows. You can see it in action in a lot of those clips.
JBP has at least done a lot of good work to get through a lot of those barriers and get people to even consider bothering with religion in the first place. Evangelists would do well to be ready to plant seeds in the soil JBP has tilled, and learn from him on how to break up that hard soil in the first place.
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Yes. And I think the secular left is making it obvious that they are evil with infanticide, baby body parts selling, child mutilation, etc. So we have more opportunities as long as we are seen to oppose all that.
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Yeah, assuming you can even get people to see that. Which can be a challenge in its own right.
Like I know I’ve seen the meme floating around “your kids are safer at a drag story hour than they are at church.” Of course, I know and remember that kids were harmed because it was made unfashionable to question or challenge priests of certain proclivities, but the Left has been oh so very clever in twisting the narrative so it’s not their usual action that’s at fault, but religion. Which is quite frustrating.
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“As I keep trying to explain to people, unless you’ve gone outside the choir, it’s hard to understand just how allergic so many people are nowadays to religion, especially Christianity.”
I see this on social media all the time. There was a Catholic group (TFP) protesting a “Satanist” convention (technically atheists) in Boston recently and people on Reddit were more supportive of the Satanists than the Catholics, calling them pedophiles, etc. And it’s weird how a lot of people are supportive of Islam when it’s more conservative than Christianity.
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Semi off topic (or is it?) I thought you’d enjoy this 5 min discussion about a faith based film.
I’m avoiding that movie, because I don’t like horror movies at all! I like spy movies, war movies and classic romance / drama.
Fair enough. I just thought it interesting some of the efforts out there in Christian art and as I was talking earlier, the reaction people had as soon as they had a suspicion it was a “religious” film.