I sometimes get into discussions with social conservatives about why I am not at least trying to get married. I have a lot of reasons for not trying to get married. For one, I don’t want to fall under the authority of hierarchies (school, work or church) who do not think that women should be held responsible for their own bad decisions. Let’s take a look at a news story that illustrates the problem.
Once upon a time, men would meet their wives in school, workplaces or churches. As long as the man was not in the reporting hierarchy of the woman, (i.e. – as long as he was not her manager or her director, etc.), then it was fine for people to meet up, date, get engaged, and get married. But that’s all changed now.
Consider this story from the New York Post:
A renowned Massachusetts Institute of Technology biologist who was axed after having what he said was a consensual fling with a much younger colleague, said the mushrooming scandal forced him on the unemployment line.
David Sabatini, 54, whose research involved unraveling how tumors develop, resigned from MIT last month and has been surviving on employment after fellow scientist Kristin Knouse claimed he “groomed” and “coerced” her into a sexual relationship, according to a report and court papers.
A longtime friend and dean at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine tried to offer him a job, but after an uproar, the school announced on May 3 that it would not hire him despite the fact that colleagues described him in a recent article as one of the world’s greatest scientists — a “genius” in line for the Nobel Prize.
“What wormhole did my life take, to … protests and being called a sexual predator? What quirk in the universe allowed this to happen?” said Sabatini, who has denied wrongdoing and noted Knouse did not work in his lab or report to him.
In an October lawsuit against MIT, Sabatini said that his relationship with Knouse, who is 21 years his junior, was consensual — and told a reporter he was shocked to find himself the subject of protests at NYU when the school explored the possibility of hiring him.
Sabatini has contended he and Knouse began their fling during a 2018 conference, while he was in the midst of a divorce. By 2020, he thought the affair had cooled, though he claims Knouse wanted to continue. By October 2020, she complained she’d been harassed, and in a later lawsuit alleged Sabitini oversaw a “sexualized” environment in his lab.
What’s interesting about this story to me is that it’s been reported that this woman entered into this relationship with this man after he clearly communicated to her that he was only looking for something casual. I.e. – he was not trying to hide that he did not want to be tied down. He was telling her that up front.
There are more details about the story in Common Sense.
After their initial hook-up…
…they met up at Knouse’s condo near Boston Common where they discussed a few ground rules for their tryst. They agreed they could see other people. Knouse, Sabatini remembers, had ongoing flings with men who she referred to with nicknames like “anesthesiologist f*** buddy,” “finance bro,” and “physics professor,” and she wanted to keep it that way. Also, they wouldn’t tell anyone. Why complicate things at work? It was all supposed to be fun.
Why did this woman get the man fired? Well, there is an old saying about women that goes like this: “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”. Apparently, Sabatini was getting interested in another woman, and less interested in Knouse:
Things were fizzling… he was getting involved with another woman, a microbiologist in Germany.
Knouse didn’t want to let go. In January 2020 she texted, in part: “I get anxious when I don’t hear back from you and then I see you post stuff on Twitter and it provides an admittedly small and silly but still another bit of evidence to this growing feeling that you don’t care about me in the way that I care about you.” He wrote back: “I am sorry but you are being crazy.” In another text, Knouse admitted feeling “stung.” She added: “I think it’s worth thinking about whether you want someone who matches your passion, intellect, and ambition.”
Godless feminists think that people are faithful and committed because of self-interest, e.g. – “passion, intellect, and ambition”, i.e. – self-interest. But of course, it doesn’t. They think that they don’t need to study to develop a worldview that rationally grounds commitment intentions and commitment ability. And they think they don’t need to choose a man who has studied to develop a worldview that rationally grounds commitment intentions and commitment ability. They think that it is totally feasible for people to stay together for 50 years because it is always fun, fun, fun. You can just like fun, and choose a man who likes fun, and have a permanent, exclusive relationship based on continuous fun.
So what happened to Sabatini next?
This:
In October 2020, Knouse texted her friends that she was “unpack[ing] a ton of suppressed abuse and trauma from an obvious local source”—an apparent reference to Sabatini. Knouse’s fellowship at the Whitehead was ending, and she didn’t apply for any faculty jobs there. When the new director, Ruth Lehmann, called Knouse to ask why, Knouse complained for the first time of being “harassed.”
In November, Knouse warned her friend—an incoming Whitehead fellow—to “squeeze out as much advice as possible before your mentor is Weinstein’ed out of science.”
In December, at Lehmann’s behest, the consulting firm Jones Diversity sent the Whitehead employees a survey “based in part on Dr. Knouse’s false complaint about Dr. Sabatini,” according to a complaint later brought by Sabatini. All participants were anonymous. Five or so of the nearly 40 employees in Sabatini’s lab took part.
The next month, two former Sabatini lab members lodged complaints to H.R.—the first complaints against him in his 24-year tenure—about “bro culture” in the lab.
This prompted the Whitehead to hire the law firm Hinckley, Allen & Snyder to conduct an investigation on “gender bias and/or inequities and a retaliatory leadership in the Sabatini lab.” The Whitehead never told Sabatini what he was accused of. Former lab members told me their co-workers were sobbing when they came out of meetings with the lawyers, saying that the lawyers had put words in their mouths. “They had a very strong agenda,” one of them told me.
Knouse was 29 years old. She was not a child. Sabatini never worked with her. He never supervised her. He never threatened her or pressured her. This was a relationship between two consenting adults. But that doesn’t matter, because in every school and workplace, women cannot be held responsible for their own bad choices. Women are always victims of men. It is always the man who must be punished. And men have to go to school and work in these environments for their entire lives – walking on thin ice, never knowing when the axe will fall.
Sabatini is ruined:
In the 24 hours after the report came out, Sabatini’s life fell apart. MIT put him on administrative leave. The Howard Hughes Medical Institute, another prestigious non-profit that funds biomedical research and was paying Sabatini’s salary, fired him. He resigned from the Whitehead, and eventually MIT, at the advice of his lawyers who thought it would help him secure his next job. (“I one hundred percent regret that,” Sabatini told me).
Soon, the biotech startups he’d helped found— Navitor Pharmaceuticals, KSQ and Raze Therapeutics—started severing their relationships with him. Sabatini was axed from professorships, fellowships, and professional societies. Awards and grants were pulled. His income disappeared.
Knouse is still working. They decided that she didn’t violate the policy – only he violated it. She has no problem at all with this outcome – she really believes she is a victim, and shouldn’t have to take responsibility for her own choices. Can you imagine being married to a woman who does whatever she wants, then blames you when things go wrong? And worse – goes to the authorities to have them punish you, when she is the one who chose poorly?
The more that ordinary, non-Christian men see stories like this, the less they are likely to marry, date or even speak to ordinary, non-Christian women. My concern as a Christian man is how different society will be as marriage declines and even disappears.
UPDATE: I decided to add a little more, because almost no one is understanding the two points of this blog post.
The issue is not whether he is to blame, or whether she is to blame.
The issue is that this was a consensual relationship.
Expectations were set at the beginning – this was casual, no commitment.
She agreed to the casual nature, she was sleeping with several other men.
Suddenly, she reached age 29, and decided it was time to get serious.
He reminded her about their arrangement – nothing serious.
They were BOTH EQUALLY in violation of the company rule.
Abuse was alleged by her, but there was no police involvement to verify it.
He was punished, but there was no criminal trial where he could defend himself.
He was not given due process. No lawyer. No self-defense.
The point is that this is common on college campuses, workplaces, and even in religious organizations. Women who are jilted by men are able to make these allegations and get these men fired without any due process.
More importantly, 1) these accusations can also be made against innocent men who are just “guilty” of offending women in the school or workplace with their conservative or Christian views. This was already happening to people in companies like Mozilla and Google. It’s getting worse.
Not only that, but 2) this sends a message to normal men not to talk to women, date them, mentor them, or marry them, since any offense you cause a woman can be used to get you fired and blacklisted.
You cannot rejoice at the man getting what he deserved, and then ALSO complain about the decline of marriage. Men are learning NOT to talk to women, date them, mentor them, or marry them. So, if you think that the woman did nothing wrong, and should keep her job, while the man did everything wrong and should lose his job, then you are anti-marriage, and you should be delighted with the declining marriage rate. Men don’t sign up to be slaves. They just don’t. And shaming them for not getting married under these conditions isn’t going to work. IT ISN’T WORKING NOW.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
I have little sympathy for him, but he could go Johnny Depp on her and sue her for falsely labeling him an abuser.
One more reason that men need to stay away from (most) women.
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There’s a case like this in a prominent church denomination right now, where a woman got into a consensual affair with a powerful, influential older married man, and then later claimed “abuse” and got him fired. She is still working with the Christian company, even though she was equally in violation of their policy.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/southern-baptists-metoo-moment
From the broad outlines of Jennifer Lye11’s story, it’s easy to understand why the members of the executive committee might have felt some hesitation to unquestioningly label her as a victim of abuse.
In 2004, Lye11 was a 26-year-old master of divinity student when she met cultural anthropology professor David Si11s, who is 23 years her senior, on the Louisvi11e campus of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Shortly after, she became close with the entire Si11s family, including David’s wife, Mary, as we11 as his co11ege-age son and teenage daughter. She a11eges that it was on a mission trip with Si11s and his daughter that Si11s first “sexua11y acted” against her.
That incident, she says, began a pattern of abuse that lasted 12 years until she was 38, continuing even as she moved to Chicago in 2006 and, later, Nashvi11e, to further her career in publishing. During the time that Lye11 was a publishing executive, she often worked with Si11s, contracting with him for books, and, arguably, holding more power over his career than he did over hers.
In essence, Lye11 was claiming that Si11s was able to continue committing acts of sexual abuse against her even after she’d left the state because she would return to visit the family.
The article contains many other interesting details.
According to the article, the accused was never allowed to defend himself. And the police were never brought in to investigate the charges. Just like on university campuses where men get expelled without the police ever getting involved, and the accused never being allowed to defend himself from legal charges. The woman was paid $1 million dollars from her employer’s insurance company.
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Again, no sympathy for an adulterous husband and father / church leader. He should do time in my world, and will in God’s Eternal Prison with no Parole, lest he repent.
But it IS interesting that her career would skyrocket and she would continue to have sex with him after 12 years of “abuse.”
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The key point is that the laws on the books were applied one way – against men. The women involved kept their jobs, because although they chose to get into these relationships, they are somehow victims of abuse and can get the men fired from their jobs without police investigation or criminal trial.
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Yes, I agree, John, and I get that.
I’m merely pointing out that the two men in these examples were engaged in activities that were incredibly contrary to all things Christ, so it’s difficult to have any sympathy for them. They could have avoided all of this with a small amount of self-control, but in both cases, lust caused them to do things that Christ will punish them for, lest they repent. They suffered unjust consequences at the hands of Jezebels in this lifetime, but they will suffer Just consequences at the Hands of Jesus in the next one.
That doesn’t excuse n any way what the Jezebels did, but there are similar examples out there where the men involved elicit far more sympathy than these. I’m thinking of the guy who, as a friend, babysat a woman’s children while she worked and when he stopped, got sued for child support. Or something like that.
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I think the points of the article are 1) look at the people who run these hierarchies in schools and workplaces and churches – they don’t involve the police, they don’t let the man defend himself, then they fire the man and keep the woman employed. And 2) what does this communicate to normal, non-Christian men about whether they should enter relationships with normal, non-Christian women?
I hope people are able to separate out their chivalrous instincts and look at the bigger picture.
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Agreed, but the worldly victims are pretty creepy guys in both cases, don’t you think?
If they had acted with even a shred of morality, they wouldn’t have ended up with unfair worldly consequences.
I’m thinking of all of the guys who were good husbands and fathers and got unjustly taken to the cleaners by a “woman” who lost the feelies, or hit menopause and went crazy, or whatever.
The “women” in these stories are evil, but the “men” aren’t really any better, even if they were punished unjustly by the world.
Just my two cents.
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Guys like you who have pro life views on social media can be fired without due process now because you make your feminist female colleagues feel ”unsafe”. If no police involvement is required, and no criminal trial is required, and the investigators who are called in dont get your side of the story, then it can work like that. You don’t have to do anything bad, or choose a bad woman for a relationship. Conservatives like Brendan Rich get fired for making one pro-marriage donation.
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LOL, well I was almost murdered by a pro-abort, and surely post-abort, Jezebel on the sidewalk in front of a murder mill, so yeah, you are spot on.
One of the reasons that I retired at 47 was so that “career” would not be hanging over my head while I served the Lord. Not everyone is so blessed by God as I was to do that, but you have insulated yourself from worldly temptations exceedingly well, WK. That’s why your model for approaching chastity, marriage, and career is so critical.
I’m seeing a young breed of Christians who are incredibly strong these days, because they have to be, so I am cautiously optimistic.
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I have 2.5 more years to go. Cannot wait to get out of the workplace where things like this could happen to me just because I am a Christian and a conservative and the secular leftists don’t like my views.
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Law enforcement is another of those hierarchies. A woman can simply call the police, make an accusation and be believed automatically. I know this from experience. First argument we had, with no violence or the threat thereof, the now ex-gf called the police on me. I narrowly emerged from the situation with my skin intact, but I haven’t dated since and have no intention of it unless God drops a woman in my lap Himself.
It’s truly amazing what women can get away with.
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Yes, there is something called the Duluth model, which assumes that if there is a call for alleged domestic violence, then the police arrest the man. So even with police involvement there are no guarantees. What’s more, studies of sentencing show that women get much lighter sentences than men. I think its 10% of what men get for the same crimes, with the same criminal record.
This is sad for me, because the more we do on like this, the more normal men will view normal women as too dangerousto even speak to.
And what’s more, men like me who put their conservative Christian views on social media can easily be accused, tried by human resources, and fired, just because these conservative views made women in their classrooms and workplaces and churches feel “unsafe”.
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Seems like a not uncommon occurrence these days where participants in casual sexual relationships end up kinda hating each other upon dissolution..
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Anyone not committed to recreational, promiscuous sex as an absolutely necessary first principal might analyze the data and realize that recreational, promiscuous sex doesn’t have a good track record for long term outcomes. Almost as if moral behavior defined by God is a good idea of good outcomes… [feeling a bit sarcastic today]
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You’re allowed! I hope it makes sense what I am saying about how these things are handled in big organizations, and what message that sends to men about whether it’s safe to talk to women.
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I am not a PhD in anything, but someone’s math is not adding up.
“David Sabatini, 54
Sabatini said that his relationship with Knouse, who is 21 years his junior
Knouse was 29 years old. She was not a child.”
Was she 29 when she started the affair? Because 54 minus 21 would make her 33. A small nit to pick, but these things bug me.
My thoughts on the entire sordid episode? I have little sympathy for him—what was he thinking? In today’s world, he was almost asking for trouble.
I have even less sympathy for her. She willingly had sex with a married man and now whines about being “groomed”—at age 29 or 33. Please.
In spite of his talents, I’m not sure I would want either one of them working for me. He was still married, “getting divorced”, means still married. They both seem like pigs incapable of making sound decisions beyond their genitals.
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He was 50 at the start. Read the article.
The issue is not whether he is to blame, or whether she is to blame.
The issue is that this was a consensual relationship.
Expectations were set at the beginning – this was casual, no commitment.
She agreed to the casual nature, she was sleeping with several other men.
Suddenly, she reached age 29, and decided it was time to get serious.
He reminded her about their arrangement – nothing serious.
They were BOTH EQUALLY in violation of the company rule.
Abuse was alleged by her, but there was no police involvement to verify it.
He was punished, but there was no criminal trial where he could defend himself.
He was not given due process. No lawyer. No self-defense.
The point is that this is common on college campuses, workplaces, and even in religious organizations. Women who are jilted by men are able to make these allegations and get these men fired without any due process.
More importantly, 1) these accusations can also be made against innocent men who are just “guilty” of offending women in the school or workplace with their conservative or Christian views. This was already happening to people in companies like Mozilla and Google. It’s getting worse.
Not only that, but 2) this sends a message to normal men not to talk to women, date them, mentor them, or marry them, since any offense you cause a woman can be used to get you fired and blacklisted.
You cannot rejoice at the man getting what he deserved, and then ALSO complain about the decline of marriage. Men are learning NOT to talk to women, date them, mentor them, or marry them. So, if you think that the woman did nothing wrong, and should keep her job, while the man did everything wrong and should lose his job, then you are anti-marriage, and you should be delighted with the declining marriage rate. Men don’t sign up to be slaves. They just don’t. And shaming them for not getting married under these conditions isn’t going to work. IT ISN’T WORKING NOW.
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Heathens will be heathens.
I won’t say anything outside of he should repent before God for his sin and to receive salvation from the Christian view.
But I agree the irony for the far left is if you live the godless hedonistic lifestyle they promote it is all great until you are in the way and useless to people
Then all your uncomdemned freedom to have fun without judgment faces a worse judgement because there is no path to salvation, forgiveness and redemption in the eyes of the far left
People are used and disposed of as an object and it is a highly ungodly view
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The university I work for had an interesting situation in which the roles were reversed. The manager was a woman having an affair with a subordinate, He started out as a grunt but was promoted to a manager position. When this affair was noticed and blew up, the female manager made allegations against the professor running the unit (that he made moves on her) as a means of deflecting criticism of her own behavior. Both males (the subordinate and the professor) paid the price. The woman got smeared badly but landed on her feet and championed by other university employees.
Rule #1 of Liberal Fight Club: it is never the woman’s fault. Liberal women will say and do anything as long as THEY benefit. When the table turns and they are about to get penalized in some measure, these women will always try to destroy an involved man. Do not date liberal, Democrat women. It’s as simple as that. They have no morals. They do not have souls.
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I’d be super careful around the David M. Sabatini issue.
I have seen these articles:https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/YTJp5WBcktBimdxBG/staying-split-sabatini-and-social-justice (which was pretty interesting)
https://forbetterscience.com/2021/11/03/the-sex-privileges-of-mtorman-david-sabatini/
As you may know, he has resigned as of a few months ago.
The tldr; version of it:
Both were very unrighteous with the junior female wanting open-relationships and have multiple uh, sexual buddies, and the older male basically used his lab as his private brothel… and after four months when he was interested in someone not the junior female and pursued it, some days later, some complaints were lodged. And only he has suffered consequences. (She’s now running her own lab.)
I would say even to non-Christians:
1/ Men should be righteous. Like “keep it in your pants.” Be above reproach.
2/ Don’t poop where you eat.
3/ Men in positions of authority should be very wary, especially in meeting with single women.
I’m not in any managerial capacity currently but yes, the Billy Graham rule has crossed my mind (especially if in doubt).
Yes, stories like this are going to cause men to be much more reluctant to mentor women — even if it’s purely platonic.
4/ Be very discerning.
Like stay away from the Wayward Woman, the Adulteress…
Men should be aware women are attracted to powerful men (whether this is financial means or temporal power) and they want that power. The wise man doesn’t broadcast that he is a man of means or that his family is well-off. This doesn’t serve as very good bait for catching the right kind of fish.
(As you know, I’ve shared with you stories when I was in my 20’s and “just being friendly at church” and viewed as a nerd and not powerful and a number of women protested. I had to learn not to be as friendly and that even the church is a place for the wounded. That largely changed when I did have considerable power e.g., I was on the Nominating Committee and had been the seminary intern and was on other leadership and was being considered for elder but then dynamics also changed.)
5/ Sex is much more than just for fun.
Many people these days treat sex like something extremely casual and mostly for entertainment / recreation.
Yes, I know I’m repeating things from others:
– would you share your medical history and medical reports?
– would you be okay with sharing health risks?
– would you share your bank accounts?
– etc.
Women often get more attached after sex. Men who haven’t had a lot of partners do too — this is sometimes referred to as pair-bonding.
From a Christian perspective, Paul mentions that even the most uninspired and the most meaningless and carnal sex — sex with a prostitute — is “becoming one flesh with her.” (That’s marital language. 1Corinthians 6:15ff.)
6/ Yes, there are uneven penalties in this case. And yes, I agree there is the Liberal Fight Club (the woman is never wrong, especially if there’s an imbalance of power).
I do think the older man made things more difficult on himself.
But I also think the younger woman was using the older man and that he should have realized she was a user. Seemed like he was disinclined to be wise, arguably due to previous bad behavior and habits and thus bad character, and was thinking with the wrong head.
He could have saved himself from a lot of negative publicity and career-derailing to career-wrecking consequences…
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