Why don’t men today talk to women about commitment and marriage?

Painting:
Painting: “Courtship”, by Edmund Blair Leighton (1888)

I saw this essay from a young woman named Jordana Narin who is explaining how she feels about not being able to talk seriously to a man she had sex with. She is a radical feminist and has a non-STEM degree in creative writing.

The essay was published in the radically leftist New York Times.

First kiss:

I met [a guy] at summer camp in the Poconos at 14, playing pickup basketball by day and talking in the mess hall late into the night. Back home we lived only 30 minutes apart, but I didn’t see him again until 11th grade, when we ran into each other at a Halloween party in a Lower Manhattan warehouse.

[…]Under the muted flashes of a strobe light, we shared our first kiss.

No communication:

We stayed in touch for the rest of high school, mostly by text message.

[…]Every time his name popped up on my phone, my heart raced.

Still, we were never more than semiaffiliated, two people who spoke and loved to speak and kissed and loved to kiss and connected and were scared of connecting.

Where is this relationship going? This boy has no job and no savings and no proven record of steady work – and therefore he cannot marry anyone. Why is she even talking to a man who cannot afford to marry her – who has no proven record as a provider?

More:

Two years after our first kiss, we were exchanging “I’ve missed you” messages again. It was a brisk Friday evening in our first semesters of college when I stepped off a train and into his comfortable arms.

He had texted weeks earlier on Halloween (technically our anniversary) to ask if I would visit. We had not talked since summer, and I was trying to forget him. We had graduated from high school into the same inexpressive void we first entered in costume, where an “I’ve missed you” was as emotive as one got.

Long gaps in between text messages – they have nothing to talk about, and there is no goal. Nevertheless, they are away from their parents, and so she had sex with him, losing her virginity to a man she was not married to.

And then:

Naïvely, I had expected to gain clarity, to finally admit my feelings and ask if he felt the same. But I couldn’t confess, couldn’t probe. Periodically I opened my mouth to ask: “What are we doing? Who am I to you?” He stopped me with a smile, a wink or a handhold, gestures that persuaded me to shut my mouth or risk jeopardizing what we already had.

On the Saturday-night train back to Manhattan, I cried. Back in my dorm room, buried under the covers so my roommates wouldn’t hear, I fell asleep with a wet pillow and puffy eyes.

The next morning I awoke to a string of texts from him: “You get back OK?” “Let’s do it again soon :)”

So my question for you is this: should a woman who has recreational sex with a man she barely knows expect to have real relationships, including a marriage relationship?

There’s an interview that goes with it on the radically leftist NPR web site, but I saved a copy of the MP3 file here in case it disappears.

Rod Dreher comments on the interview:

I wouldn’t have understood the full scope of what this young woman is saying in her essay without the interview, which is short. In the segment, Narin says that men and women in her generation don’t have actual romantic relationships anymore. It’s all casual, non-committal sex. “

[..]She tells the interviewer that there’s lots of making out and sex, but nobody wants to be emotionally vulnerable to anybody else.

[…]“Everyone in college uses Tinder,” she said, referring to the wildly popular dating and hook-up app. “You can literally swipe right and find someone just to hang out for the night. There’s no commitments required, and I think that makes committing to someone even harder, because it’s so normal, and so expected even, to not want to commit.”

In a different time, my grandparents, my great grandparents, they might have thought they were missing out on casual sex,” she says. “But since my generation has been saddled down with that, we kind of look to the past and say well, wasn’t that nice. I think both are optimal. I’m a huge feminist, and I think women should be able to do whatever they want to do. If a woman wants to have tons of casual sex, she totally should. But I think that there should be the option. And they shouldn’t be gendered, women and men. But there should be the option of being in a relationship.”

Right. Young women like her who have swallowed radical feminism hook, line and sinker don’t want to “miss out” on casual sex right now, but they want to get married “some day” – after they have a lot of fun traveling and doing exciting, fun things. Today, they want to choose to have sex with hot guys, but tomorrow they want the “option” of a man committing to them, even though they have a repeated pattern of putting recreational sex above commitment in their own lives. Basically, they don’t want to pick a man now who can actually do marriage. Right now, they want to pick a man who has no interest in marriage. Later, they want a man to pursue them for marriage.

Consider this story from the Ottawa Sun about a woman who didn’t want to say no to sex right now, but wanted to get married “some day”:

A New York woman is facing charges after police say she lied about being raped by two football players at a party to get sympathy from a prospective love interest.

Nikki Yovino, 18, has been charged with falsely reporting an incident and tampering with or fabricating physical evidence.

Last October Yovino reported that she had been sexually assaulted in a bathroom by two Sacred Heart University football players at an off-campus party.

The men, however, said it had been consensual.

Capt. Brian Fitzgerald tells WABC-TV another student informed authorities of explicit text messages between the three. He says one man also recorded some of the incident on his cellphone.

“She admitted that she made up the allegation of sexual assault against (the football players) because it was the first thing that came to mind and she didn’t want to lose (another male student) as a friend and potential boyfriend. She stated that she believed when (the other male student) heard the allegation it would make him angry and sympathetic to her,” said an affidavit, according to the New York Post.

Two. Football. Players. At the same time.

Nowhere in society is there any man who tells women like this that they should not pursue pleasure right now if they want marriage some day. No father. No pastor. No one has the courage to tell young women that following their emotions leads them to abortion, single motherhood, divorce, infertility and missing marriage completely.

Do women prepare themselves for the self-sacrifice and self-control required in marriage?

Here’s what many women think of marriage:

Look at the lyrics:

You got that 9 to 5
But, baby, so do I
So don’t be thinking I’ll be home and baking apple pies
I never learned to cook

After every fight
Just apologize
And maybe then I’ll let you try and rock my body right
Even if I was wrong
You know I’m never wrong

And know we’ll never see your family more than mine

Even when I’m acting crazy
Tell me everything’s alright

Women today expect to be pursuing their own interests before, during and after marriage. They don’t want the constraints of relationships with a husband or children. I think this will work to get attention from certain men for a while, but when she loses her youth and beauty, it will dry up pretty quickly. Who is there telling women that they need to pick a marriage-minded man and focus on marriage earlier, rather than later?

Will anyone talk about marriage to these women?

Most men are not interested in committing to, or discussing commitment with, women who put pleasure above self-control. Most non-Christian men will have sex with a hedonistic women, but they are too smart to ever commit to them. Why would a man commit to a narcissist? If a man’s role is just to please the “huge feminist”, then there is no reason to commit to her and be the slave of her selfish impulses for the rest of his life. Radical feminists believe that relationships are about their plans and their needs. They are not interested in responsibilities, expectations or obligations to men or to children. Most men, even secular men, understand that they must not marry a woman who rejects moral obligations for fun. Especially with the looming threat of no-fault divorce.

7 thoughts on “Why don’t men today talk to women about commitment and marriage?”

  1. People don’t realize that who they choose to be can affect who they end up with. If they are wanting to have someone who is committed to them, they also have to be willing to commit. I know that we are all born with unique traits and abilities, but it is like the world thinks that we can just be whatever and whoever without consequences. Committed relationships take lots of purposeful, thoughtful work to make them work. There is give and take. This world she is describing sounds like it is just take without the give; a world full of victims not willing to realize that the only victims they are of… are themselves.

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  2. Hooking up is devastating for young men and women but especially women. Men who have had many partners still can emotionally bond to and support their future wives. Women who have had many partners find it almost impossible to emotionally bond to their future husbands.

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    1. Still, if I’m going to put in the work to to remain a virgin for my future husband, I would expect the same and therefore I wouldn’t be open to (or honestly able to) “emotionally bond” with a man who has hand many partners, no matter how much he evidently was williing to bond with me (or the rest of the world).

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      1. I agree. I’m a virgin and I feel that this is important to offer my future wife so she knows that I have self control. The best way to check a man out is to ask to contact his previous girlfriends.

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  3. In today’s world a person under 21 is not emotionally mature for marriage. A person who has had no experience in long term relationships (or solid romantic relationships lasting longer than 3 months) is not ready for marriage. A person is only a victim of what they choose to be vulnerable to.

    You said the guy had no prospects and was not good for marriage (he was what 17?), thats obvious. The girl, about the same age, was too emotionally insecure and couldnt talk about her feelings or what she wanted, therefore not good for marriage – yet.

    It takes time and experience to learn these things. The only reason I’m good for being a husband is that I understand women, and its taken many many relationships and casual encounters to learn this. Now I can be confident I can emotionally support and understand my wife. A man can have a good job, but that alone wont make a good husband cos the job can be taken away. experience cant be taken away, only improved.

    A woman who has had a few relationships and some sexual experience will be better ready for marriage after the age of 25 when all the teenage drama hormones settle down and she will be able to spot and filter out unreliable men. Otherwise, if she’s like you, waiting for marriage to have sexual experience, you’ll both be awkward and clueless and it will soon create boredom and youll stuff up because you dont know what you’re doing. And because you have no clue, you’ll try to fix but it will make it worse.

    So finding a good woman to marry, you have to play the game or the game plays you. There is always a price to pay when it comes to sex. An emotionally mature person is able to understand when the price is right (sometimes you have to work hard); but thats what experience teaches you, so go out and get some numbers!

    Young people, have difficulty expressing themselves and their feelings and intentions due to their insecurities, inexperience and naivety, good job or not, are NOT ready for marriage yet at that point in their life.

    *I’m happily married for 12 years, with 13years prior experience.

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  4. The real conundrum here is that young people are willing and eager to have sex looong before they “think” they are ready for marriage. As long as premarital sex remains a socially “acceptable” option, and the consequences appear far removed, a large number of people are going to take it. From what I have seen, and also evidenced by some of the comments above, very few people ever regret having premarital sex. In a better culture, it would be emphasized that if you’re not ready for marriage and having children, then you’re not ready for sex either.

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