The pictures are up at the UK Telegraph. (H/T Jennifer Roback Morse and Andrew)
Here’s one:
Now, I don’t know anything about babies, and I only like children after they grow up old enough to play with – maybe around 6 years old. But this unborn baby certainly looks very interesting. Like a little alien monster! (I hope it doesn’t attack us!) I wonder what he (or she) is thinking about? I wonder what he (or she) will eventually be like? Could this one be another William Lane Craig (or Michele Bachmann)? It’s too early to tell at this point. And that’s kind of interesting.
UPDATE: I looked at the creature a bit more, and the more I look, the more I think that it’s scheming. I mean, look at the cute little hands near the face! That’s what I do when I’m scheming. So I think the creature is scheming. Scheming about apologetics. In the little scheming bubble, which appears to be an excellent location for scheming.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
Could this one be another William Lane Craig (or Michele Bachmann)? It’s too early to tell at this point. And that’s kind of interesting.
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but it really doesn’t matter who it’s going to grow up into just so long as s/he is allowed to do that at all.
/being humorless today
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Are you going to make me a scheming bubble so I can go into it and scheme there? Scheme!
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“I only like children after they grow up old enough to play with – maybe around 6 years old.”
What?! Are you serious?? I love babies and I like ’em more before they start speaking coherently. One reason of course is that when they start talking and asking questions it gets increasingly difficult to be delicate and frank at the same time but babies are such bliss. You just have look at them smile or laugh, and that’s all you need to lose yourself into. Besides the very fact that little babies are so vulnerable and they need you for every want of theirs would make you want to protect them and brings such tenderness to your heart. I’ve been around a lot of babies, and I don’t understand how anybody could even imagine harming such cute vulnerable delicate creatures!! I can’t even stand commercials which use babies to promote their products!!
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I have supervised and taught children from age 3 to young adult in paid and volunteer work. Speaking as a man, children are dull as dirt until they reach the age of 6. That’s when they get interesting. Maybe when they are 5, but definitely not 4. I can never get them to follow instructions for anything interesting like games or sports when they are 4 or less.
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Question: Have you ever been around children who are 2 yrs old or less? If you have, don’t their smiles seriously give you happiness??
Life is not just about doing interesting things all the time. Life is also about enjoying interesting things and I can’t imagine anything more interesting than a laughing baby. But of course, I speak as a woman!
BTW I have supervised children from the age 6 too. Supervising children is different from raising children is what I’ve learnt from my experience. Just saying.
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“Have you ever been around children who are 2 yrs old or less?”
Nope!
I like cockatiels, though. And guns. And military vehicles. Are 2 year olds anything like those?
Babies laugh? I thought that they only made stinky smells and shrieking cries. Are you sure?
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“I like cockatiels, though. And guns. And military vehicles.”
You remind of a friend of mine who’s such a huge dog lover that you can call him a dog and be sure to see a broad grin on his face! :-| Anyway, he preferred dogs to babies too!
“Babies laugh? I thought that they only made stinky smells and shrieking cries. Are you sure?”
Am not sure whether you are being serious or just trying to pull my leg here, but if anyone can be sure it has to be me. Though I don’t have any kids of my own, I have several nieces and nephews. Heck! I even became a grandma this year, thanks to my cousin’s daughter who gave birth to twin boys this year.
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“Babies laugh? I thought that they only made stinky smells and shrieking cries. Are you sure?”
University students do this, too ;)
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I just came across this post via your link from the one on babies learning language patterns in the womb.. It’s a gorgeous picture. So cute! I totally agree with Shalini.
As for your aversion to children < 6 years… Dude, you need to spend more time around them! Let them get used to you. They scream less if they're used to you and feel comfortable around you. And they're adorable, and soft, and cuddly. And they have the most disarmingly lovable tendency of breaking into a huge smile or laughing spontaneously when you pull faces at them. Be gentle with them and you'll be amazed at how naturally and unaffectedly they respond. I love looking after the babies at church. At one stage I taught 4 year olds and it was awesome. They would run and cluster around "Miss Mary", and hold onto my skirt, and give me a group hug. They're lovely little things. And there is a LOT you can teach them, even when they can't respond verbally. Apparently the first 8 years of a child's life are the most formative, so if you wait til age 6, you're not having an impact for most of the time when you most crucially should. Your child will be far more open to listening and learning from you later on if you've spent time developing a bond with the child from the get go.
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I’ve taught everything from 3 year olds to 12 year olds, as well as special needs young adults! I’m telling you – any one less than 6 years old is a barbarian! Or, a barbari-beast, as I often call ECM.
Yes, they used to cling to me at camp as well – and that’s why I invented the game of “avoid the ankle-biters”. I’ve also taught young children math and logic in classrooms. They like me, but I don’t like them!
Regarding having an impact early – that’s why I have to marry a decent wife since she will be in charge of them during the all important first 2 years when they develop their capacity for empathy, which is the precursor to morality.
I agree with you that the bond is important for later mentoring though. That is a convincing argument.
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Gosh, that seems so cold to not like them when they like you. :-(
Your wife shouldn’t be given the sole parenting responsibility before age 2. If you are not involved personally with the child that is damaging to the child and she might as well be a single woman who had IVF from the child’s perspective. I’m really surprised at this coming from you.
Moreover, if you want people to not have an anti-man sentiment then you should show them that men are involved with their kids from a young age, building that bond which you agree is important.
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There are a LOT of people who like me who I don’t like. It’s pretty normal for me, actually. I am friends with the Lord. It is hard for me to like anyone who doesn’t acknowledge him in all they do. I only feel safe with other Christians who are committed activists who regulate even their romantic relationships, their spending and their pleasure-seeking using their knowledge of Christ’s character. So many Christians seem to be such good activists and Bible-thumpers – but in their private lives, they are not much different than atheists who just want to be happy in this life.
Men just don’t like kids that much when they cannot DO anything. It’s just the way we are. They only start to DO stuff at around age 3.
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I agree with Mary. (Ah! Mary this has become only humourously weird habit of ours now! :D)
But WK, you’ve got me totally confused here. Aren’t you the one who keeps saying that a child needs both a father and a mother? (With which I completely agree) And now you are saying that kids under the age of 2 should necessarily be a mother’s responsibility! What’s with the contradiction, huh?
While you might have lot of reasons to dislike adults who like you, you haven’t come with one valid reason not to like kids who like you. Saying they cannot do anything doesn’t count because it’s self-serving. I do understand you constantly think about doing things that please God. But ignoring young kids is not really what would please God IMO. Remember Jesus saying “Unless you become like little children…”? You think you can teach children so much, which is true, but those small children can teach us a lot too. Their unflinching trust on their human parents, for one.
Mary’s argument about the bond being established early on is an excellent point. What better way is there to teach a child about God’s love for us dirty humans than by showing them how you don’t mind cleaning them up? Morality cannot be taught without expressions of love. And expressions of love aren’t just white roses or poems. You cannot teach anything without doing the dirty work nor can you do it without the patience. Like how God does it. It’s amazing how the Bible says it was the boy babies who were 2 yrs old or younger who were the first martyrs of Christ. The same group you don’t want to do anything with!
All this and the fact that no sane Christian woman would want to marry a man who doesn’t want to do much with children that young should give you a reason to reconsider your stand. Sorry it’s harsh but it’s true just the same.
Oh and quit the generalizations will you? There are lots of men who love babies. My brothers are excellent examples. In fact, my eldest brother was 14 when I was born and till this day my mom keeps telling me how he would wake up when I cry at night to be fed and prepare my formula milk all by himself, so my eldest sister could feed me. I’ve seen how much both my brothers come home from work and the first thing they do, after they cleaning up, is to go my niece or nephew!
And just so you know, if all that matters to you is they can DO something useful, God doesn’t really have much use for us really.
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Cue eerie lobster music.
I spent the whole day today with a famous blogger and his family (I link to him all the time). He has several kids. And we talked about this issue. He agreed with me that kids don’t really become interesting or useful until they are 6 or older. But his wife explained to me what in the first two years, the kids are learning emotions, and then from 2 years on, they are actually learning morality – but at a very basic level.
I think I told you by e-mail that I have camp counselor, swimming instructor and math tutor experience with kids aged 3-12. I even taught swimming lessons to adults. So I am speaking from experience. Children are exhausting. I can only play with them for about two hours before I want to run away and hide and lock the door behind me. I just can’t handle the shrieking, the messiness, and the irrationality! Blechity blech!
Oh, and the blogger’s family gave me left-overs! So I brought home pasta salad, green beans, tomatoes, corn and fish! I told them about my total lack of ability in home renovations, cooking, cleaning, etc. They took pity on me and gave me food, just like my co-workers do.
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Shalini, it’s uncanny… :) Shalini speaketh wisdom, WK. Lend her your ears.
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Well, as a certain theologian said, if you don’t love someone then you don’t really know them.
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I have to agree with Mary here, Wintery.
I’m a daddy’s girl through and through. But my dad, like you, couldn’t deal with very young babies. And I think I missed something in my development because he barely acknowledged me as an infant.
And when I started having babies, my father kept his distance till they reached a certain age.
HOWEVER.
My husband AND my father-in-law AND all my husband’s brothers (he had five) jumped in with both feet, cooed and smiled and interacted like total champs when my babies were only days old.
It was off-the-charts amazing and beautiful for me to watch.
It made ME feel loved and cherished for these men to love my newborns like they did.
And I know it was good for my babies to have these men interested in them from day one.
Babies need women AND men for the best possible development conditions. From the very start.
Even if it feels like you are accomplishing nothing and the baby can’t focus on you, trust me. You are accomplishing a lot.
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Hmmmmn. This is very persuasive.
Maybe if I have children, I will remember this and just go ahead and do it to make my wife happy. It seems like a man being involved early made a big impression on you. I’m ok with doing what my wife wants for things like this even if I don’t agree, because it’s not morally wrong. And maybe you’re right and I would be accomplishing a lot, even though it doesn’t seem very productive to me.
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Geez, what do you want kids for if not to love them regardless of age? So it’s not productive to you? On what basis? If they grow up being more secure and loved, that is about as productive as you can get. Much more important than apolgetics, though I suspect you will disagree.
Wahhhhh!
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I want to play Capture the Flag and Chinese Checkers with them. That’s productive! Why, when they’re too, they don’t even know what a car or a dragon or a sword is! What fun is that? But I think Mara’s point makes sense – it might be something you have to invest in early in order to make sure they develop those capacities.
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He’s learning. Yay!
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It’s not only “not morally wrong” to invest time in a baby or tiny tot, it’s morally right. To NOT do it, is morally wrong.
And in order to address the mind you need to prepare the heart. By spending time with your children from early on they learn to love you and will hang on every word you say. Otherwise, if you ignore them and all of a sudden want them to listen to you at age 6, they’ll want to know why the distant guy who never spends any time with them thinks they should listen to him.
And Mara’s right: seeing a man who is good with babies and little children is just gorgeous. Who cares about when there are men who will love and care for little children like Jesus did?
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* The last sentence should read:
Who cares about InsertNameOfPopCultureHeartthrob when there are men who will love and care for little children like Jesus did?
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Thanks Mary, you comment makes me very happy because this is a huge concern of mine.
Christian love is not something that just grows on trees – and it’s NOT something that can be assessed in a few moments when you first meet someone either, from the sound of someone’s voice, or from a picture. It is NOT something that can be known by emotions or intuitions. It takes time to train the ability and it takes time to demonstrate it to someone else. And it comes out in a person’s past decisions – how they treat other people, how long their other relationships are, how they treat their pets and possessions.
Self-sacrificial love is impossible to sustain when a person has no firm foundation for PRESCRIPTIVE morality – the demands of love in a marriage require that both spouses act to honor moral obligations – obligations that do not always coincide with selfish desires. The right thing is NOT always what makes you feel good at the moment. Just because you like someone doesn’t mean that they ARE capable of self-sacrificial love. Just because you don’t like someone, it doesn’t mean they ARE NOT capable of self-sacrificial love. Feelings about someone (pro or con) don’t confer the capability (or the incapability) of self-sacrificial love. Feelings don’t change the way the world really is objectively.
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Well said, Shalini! I think you and I are “kindred spirits”. An extra 5 points if you know where that’s from. ;-)
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Hmmmmn. This all sounds very convincing but what if they sink their little fangs into me or throw up all over me? That doesn’t sound very productive or efficient.
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lol! :D
That’s when you experience what God feels like when we do the same to Him. Very productive and efficient lesson in the Gospel I’d say.
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Besides, it’s not very chivalrous to expect your wife to be the only one who gets thrown up on or bitten. Eh?
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I don’t see how allowing myself to be bitten and thrown up on helps. I think it’s better to keep the children in the barn until they are 6. They they can come in the house like people. Is that bad?
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That’s why they invented the play pen. See: play pen, sheep pen… The barnyard analogy works.
Alternatively, keep them in a sandbox. But it must be sea sand, because little lobsters need that to thrive.
:D
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One of my male co-workers says 7. Just wait till Shalini finds out what I’ve been saying. She’s going to blow her stack.
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Ahem!! I am not going to blow my stack or anything but I do seriously wish your 6 year old turns out to be like Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes!! :P
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Eeee! I don’t want that. If that happens, he’ll have to stay in the barn tills he gets a job.
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Yes, I also hope that WK’s 6 year old turns out to be a Calvinist too. Heehee! ;-D
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Incidentally, my own experience of teaching children in the ages 4-19 category is that the most badly behaved ones are the ones who are neglected by their parents. They act up to get the attention they need and crave.
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Another thing to throw in.
Children do the MOST developing (emotionally and personality wise) between ages 0-3.
After that, they continue to develop but not at such a rapid rate. I’ve heard it said, that who and what a child will become is set by age two or three.
I would hope that you would want to be a part of that critical stage of development.
Don’t despise the day of small beginnings.
Literally.
:)
Last words of the Old Testament:
Malachi 4:6 And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of chilfre to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.
It’s not enough to be pro-life to please God. You’ve got to be pro-child.
(I’m not saying you aren’t. But when a child is conceived, people have to be willing to be in it for the long haul, from start to finish.)
This video doesn’t prove my point. I just like it. And people who love children, usually love this video, even if they don’t completely agree with it theologically:
If you have children, Wintery, I think you will make a great father, whether they be sons or daughters.
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WK — Jesus said, “except you become as little children, and to be more specific, my upper-limit cut-off is age five, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven”.
Now how do you feel? Pretty silly, huh?
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On a serious note, this isn’t about babies alone you know. Child birth isn’t easy. It involves a lot of excruciating pain and exhaustion for the mother. On top of all of that, she wouldn’t be allowed to rest as the baby needs to be fed every 2 hours. Combine all the nappy changing, cleaning, washing baby clothes and mother would end up having very little sleep. If the husband is not supportive enough, she might end up suffering from postnatal depression which wouldn’t be good for your marriage at all.
Besides if you really think you have any serious argument for escaping the trouble, I have 2 words for you: Wedding vows! Remember the part about being with through ups and downs? That clause includes child rearing as well.
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Yep. A friend of mine’s wonderful husband helps her by putting the baby back to sleep in the middle of the night after feeds. The child takes an hour to feed and then wakes up every 3 hours, so it’s a really big help that enables her to get *some* sleep. He’s a fantastic husband and super-involved dad.
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I am fearfully and wonderfully made. God is the master planner of every human being on earth fear Him.
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I would like to use the image of the unborn child on a hoodie design for my youth group – how can I go about getting written permission for that?
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Contact the people I linked to.
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