Some Christian women argue that chastity is an “idol” that detracts from Jesus’ “gospel of forgiveness”. Basically, they claim that although premarital sex is a sin, it shouldn’t stop a man from marrying them, because they can just make the sin disappear by asking Jesus for forgiveness. But does this really address the underlying concern that men with have marrying a non-virgin?
Let’s start with an example (reported by Daily Wire), then analyze what is going on here:
Though “The Bachelorette” star Hannah Brown has been open about her Christian faith this past season, she also openly boasted about premarital sex as if it were no big deal.
“I have had sex, and, honestly, Jesus still loves me,” Brown said on Monday’s episode.
[…]Brown later spoke with Entertainment Tonight about her religious views on Christ, which boil down to a “personal relationship with Jesus” without doctrinal accountability.
“Regardless of anything that I’ve done … well people might think, ‘Oh, that deserves a scarlet letter.’ That’s not how it works. I can do whatever — I sin daily and Jesus still loves me. It’s all washed and if the Lord doesn’t judge me and it’s all forgiven, then no other man, woman … can judge me,” Brown told Entertainment Tonight.
So to start with, Transformed Wife has a spiritual reflection this, which you can read. The Bible teaches that sex outside of marriage is rebellion against God, and Jesus tells people who sin that they are forgiven, but that they should “sin no more”. Sinning no more is hard. But what should be easy is not telling everyone that sinning is OK, like Hannah Brown did. She doesn’t think that the Bible has the authority to say NO to her feelings and desires. Already, this is a red flag for men who feel that they can’t trust a woman who is willing to throw out Bible verses when it goes against her desires.
Even among Christians, premarital sex is the rule, not the exception:
As many as 80 percent of unmarried evangelical young adults have had sex, according to an analysis of a study on sexual activity in the upcoming October issue of Relevant, a Christian magazine.
Young adults between the ages of 18 and 29 who identify themselves as evangelicals are almost as sexually active as their non-Christian peers, according to the article “(Almost) Everyone’s Doing It.”
This study from Live Science makes clear that young people see avoiding commitment as an intended benefit of premarital sex.
Two-thirds of participants said they had been in a “friends with benefits” relationship, and 36 percent said they currently were in one. The main advantage of such a relationship was “no commitment” (reported by 59.7 percent of participants), which was followed closely by “have sex” (55.6 percent).
Let’s decide what premarital sex tells marriage-minded Christian men about a woman.
What a woman’s choice to have recreational premarital sex tells a marriage-minded man
What kind of men do women choose for recreational premarital sex? Well, they choose men who don’t commit to marriage before sex. It’s not as if women are choosing these men because they are good at commitment behaviors; sobriety, fidelity, charity, protecting children, etc. A premarital-sex woman thinks that a no-commitment man is the best man. If she thought that a marriage-minded man were best, she’d be giving him sex – after marrying him. She uses her temporary supply of youth and beauty to reward the no-commitment man for his “superiority”. What makes him superior? A bunch of superficial traits like height, tattoos, piercings, arrogance, etc. – basically, he’s fun in the moment.
The commitment man is bad, because he just wants to burden her with a “boring” marriage commitment. Commitment requires moral boundaries that would reduce her fun. For example, the commitment man might tell her “these research papers say that it’s best for our newborn if you quit your job and stay home, instead of putting them into daycare”. Or he might say, “we can’t afford your shopping” or “your smoking is bad for our pregnant baby”. And she doesn’t want to deal with this “controlling” behavior – not right now, anyway. Her youth and beauty needs to be used to chase her real priority, which is fun with the hot bad boys. Marriage is not her first priority, it’s her last resort.
Marriage-minded men can’t lead a family if they marry a woman who does not respect them
So, suppose that a woman passes up marriage-minded men during her young and pretty years. Should a marriage-minded man pursue her after she’s done having fun?
Well, what does her past decision-making reveal about her character? She prefers no-commitment men, and her goal is fun.So how can a woman who chose no-commitment men suddenly change herself completely around and start to like men with commitment skills, (chastity, sobriety, frugality, mentoring, etc.). Marriage-minded men marry in order to lead. But will a woman who prefers no-commitment men and fun allow a man she sees as “boring” and “controlling” to lead her? A wise commitment-man must choose a woman who respects his preparation for and focus on commitment.
Now the woman might say that she’s changed, and now she is ready to get serious with a real man. But what reasons does a man have to think that her change is genuine? What has she read to change her mind? What actions show that she wants a man to lead in moral and spiritual areas? What evidence is there that she is now an activist against feminism, promiscuity, abortion, divorce, socialism and single motherhood? Isn’t a man entitled to ask for some evidence of what caused her to change her mind about which men are good, and what relationships are for?
Suppose that her sudden change is just because she recognizes that her recreational premarital sex approach to getting a no-commitment man to commit hasn’t worked. So she hasn’t changed which men she is attracted to, but now she just wants financial support and the social respectability of marriage. From a man she doesn’t admire, doesn’t respect, will not support, and will not follow. Is that a good value proposition for a commitment-man?
Marriage-minded men don’t marry in order to give a woman who prefer no-commitment men financial support and social respect. We marry in order to lead a family with the support of a woman who respects our focus on marriage and commitment. We don’t trust last-second conversions to the pro-patriarchy position. We have to be convinced that a woman really repented of her past, and now has a deep, Christian understanding of men, marriage and parenting. This is a nearly impossible task given the myths about men and marriage that are floating around in this secular leftist culture of feminism and misandry. In order to accept that the woman has changed, we expect to see the work you did to change your behavior patterns and beliefs from anti-marriage to pro-marriage. I have met a few women who have done this, including some of my trusted advisors… but it’s rare.
The importance of evidence in making selfish, reckless behavior unthinkable
My female advisors are always telling me to be more positive in my writing. “You must tell women what to do after mistakes have already been made!” OK, women: the solution is simple, and it’s found in Romans 12:1-2. You have to change your criteria for men, and your vision of marriage by consuming evidence that makes your prior decisions unthinkable. You must train yourself to disregard your feelings, your desires and cultural pressure. And then you must put your new mind into practice with your actions, including promoting your new vision for men, sex and marriage to other people in public. These actions will signal to men that you are serious about marriage.
So, I’ll just link to my previous posts about peer-reviewed scientific research, which shows the scientific backing for the Bible’s teaching on this topic:
- delaying sexual activity leads to higher quality marriages
- more premarital sex leads to more marital unhappiness, raising risk of no-fault divorce
The evidence is necessary because evidence helps everyone to do the right thing, regardless of feelings, desires and peer approval.
You wouldn’t waste your money on tattoos, alcohol, cigarettes and travel if you understood the financial demands of retirement and how to invest in order to be ready for retirement. Knowledge of investing and retirement overrides feelings, desires and peer pressure. If women do not prioritize learning the “boring” evidence about best practices for men, sex and marriage, then they will decide how to live based on their feelings, desires and the culture. In a secular left culture like this, a man with chastity and a good fortune will be attracted to women who have deliberately walled off sin by strengthening their ability to be good at marriage with evidence.
If you’re looking for somewhere to start, I recommend “The Sacred Search” by Gary Thomas and “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” by Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
I think ANY man should prefer a virgin as they wouldn’t have slept around and had baggage from strings of ex’s… She’d be your 1 and only.
https://aladyofreason.wordpress.com/
LikeLiked by 3 people
I agree. I think any woman should prefer a virgin too, for the self-control that is a sign of resistance against adultery. But I have never seen a post from a Christian woman about the importance of finding a chaste man to marry. Isn’t that strange?
LikeLiked by 4 people
The only time they ever bring up wanting a chaste man for marriage is often when a man is stating he wants a virgin for marriage. But yes it’s never like they place great importance on it.
LikeLiked by 2 people
It really isn’t given today’s environment.
LikeLike
I wrote an article about that on my blog …
LikeLiked by 2 people
Where is this article? I want to read it!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Here it is! :) Please comment on my post if you didn’t already…
LikeLiked by 2 people
I will but it might be a few days later.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ok :)
LikeLike
Yep, it was a good one, LOR – I remember it!
You got some pushback too – handled it with class, as always.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Thanks!
LikeLike
Prepositions matter.
The churches are filled with people who think that Jesus came to save them TO their sins instead of FROM their sins.
Cheap grace.
So the “I can do anything I want, and Jesus will still love me” concept is prevalent.
Also, I would worry about prior abortions and STD’s with a sleep-around gal.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Yes, but I didn’t want to get too yucky. I wanted to just be clear about that one point. If a woman chooses men who don’t want commitment, then it is a sign for commitment-men that she will not love them and respect them if they marry her later one when she comes to her senses. And her words aren’t any serious indication of repentance.
What’s funny is that even the women who claim to have repented just keep on saying the same things… they are not repentant, they are just “tired of the games” and “looking for a real man” because their “kids are my world”. Well, no. Your actions when you were young show that your first priority was games. That your first pick of men were not real men. And that your kids, now being raised fatherless, are not your world. Speaking words to paint a portrait of themselves as marriage minded fails, because they have literally no idea what a marriage-minded man wants from a wife and mother. And they have no affection for him that would cause them to support and submit to his leadership. This is the great danger that commitment men must avoid from women who passed them over.
LikeLiked by 3 people
You make some very good points. I agree in general. You convey very good advice, especially to young women. As an older widow who married rather late in life, I wish to make another point regarding marriage in general, especially as to what men want in women as wives and mothers of their children. I learned early in life that young men are rather vain, selfish, and not very mature. It has been my observation that young men need to have a few years under their belts before being reedy for marriage and fatherhood. It has been stated that many, if not most, women are the more vain of the sexes. Well, women are very much aware, since childhood, that to attract the boys and young men, she must be physically perfect and attractive and have a pleasing personality that attracts young men. Also, the boys, and men in general, are very easily influenced by popular, yet subjective, untrue, comments about others. I learned rather early, as a young pre-teen, how easy unfair or unflattering remarks can influence young men regarding just women in general. And if the young woman had a handicap or even a minor flaw, no matter how small or unnoticeable, she would not be taken seriously, or even noticed, by young men. Now, just who are the vain ones ? This fact, this reality would be rather disappointing, wouldn’t you say ? Mind you, I would have been very glad to have married in my youth and had children with a young man. But I found out rather early that I was not considered seriously by any available men, largely because of petty and untrue remarks they had heard, even years earlier. This truth leaves only one alternative for many women who are in this category. She must find a means to make a decent living and even leave the area of her youth, which I was forced to do. My late husband, whom I met and married in my mid-forties, revealed to me while we were dating, that some of the men in the midst of our workplace, etc., had determined that I, although rather attractive and available, they believed that I had ‘just given up on men.’ I laughed and replied, ‘quite the contrary: men, from the get-go, had not considered me at all.’
So, your idealistic comments re: the dating process and marriage are fine for many people. But for us, who are not blessed with being perfect in body and personality, etc. that is a long struggle that may be only partly successful. That is all we can hope for.
LikeLike
Karen, I agree. I didn’t marry until I was 30. Young men are looking for none other than perfection: a domestic supermodel with no job. Thin and feminine are what men desire; yet women are shallow if they desire a fit, attractive, financially driven man. Prior to meeting my husband I was prepared to live a single, chaste life as an unmarried virgin and was applying to graduate school for nurse anesthesia to dedicate my life in service to others (I’m an RN). I then met my husband, who wasn’t put off that I had been working to support myself for the past 5 years (how else does a woman stay pretty without money for regular haircuts, minimal makeup, beautiful new clothes, a gym membership, and health insurance to go to the doctor to maintain her health?) who was thrilled that I was a cycle instructor (thin and fit-check!) and that I owned my home and obviously knew how to cook HEALTHY dishes for myself. I stayed a virgin until married, as did my husband. Could I have easily married a physician, physical therapist, or some other high earning healthcare worker earlier in my life? Sure, I could, but their hearts weren’t pure and I didn’t wish to be taken advantage of. I wish more men & women would be educated on the dangers of STDs and women need to consider a virgin man as a high priority for marriage.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Don’t agree at all with Karen and KSM. Most of the “nice guys” in the middle don’t demand or even want anything near perfection in a woman. Most guys are happy if a girl is good-looking enough to be attractive to him – that is, there is an attraction threshold- once a girl meets that threshold, having a nice personality (is it a lot to ask for a girl to be nice?) is much higher priority.
Either Karen and KSM aren’t being honest (intentionally or not) or they don’t consider average guys to even count in their calculation – so, yes, I’d believe that they have to be physically perfect for the “hot guys”, football players, etc. So different from my observed reality that I’d have to consider these comments more evidence for female hypergamy.
LikeLike
Rewritten with more charity.
My observations and experience don’t agree at all with those of Karen and KSM. Most of the “nice guys” in the middle don’t demand or even want anything near physical perfection in a woman. Most guys are happy if a girl is good-looking enough to be attractive to him – that is, there is an attraction threshold- once a girl meets that threshold, having a nice personality (is it a lot to ask for a girl to be nice?) is much higher priority.
Which gives me the impression that nice, average guys aren’t counted in their observations.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“Good looking enough” is relative. I’m sure different men have different preferences, but there’s a collective want of “thin/fit, long hair, gorgeous skin” which takes time and money for upkeep.
I respectfully disagree that a woman’s personality and sweet demeanor are more important to a man than her appearance. A submissive spirit and cheerful attitude are good qualities in a woman. A woman’s worth is defined by her beauty and her ability bear children. That’s what I grew up hearing and that’s essentially what I read on almost all Christian blogs today, especially in the Christian manosphere.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Am I the only guy who is slightly put off by the idea? The thought of a woman wincing in pain and hemorrhaging while we’re going at it doesn’t sound fun.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh wasn’t thinking about that. I was just thinking about the romantic side of it, and her choosing me for who I really am as a man, after rejecting all the hot bad boys.
LikeLike
Yes, but then another guy did it – is that thought better?
LikeLiked by 1 person
It’s the bonding experience, especially if the groom is a virgin as well.
LikeLiked by 1 person
There’s no reason that the woman wincing in pain and bleeding are necessarily part of marrying a virgin. But even if those things do occur, it’s a minor thing for a very short time. You have the rest of your lives to get good at sex together. It’s far better to marry a woman who doesn’t have the baggage of having been with some other man.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Hannah Brown’s comments are ridiculous, it’s a fact that Christians who sexually sinned were excommunicated until they truly repented, and there is a specific warning that sexual immorality is sinning against your own body, and it seems to have extra weight because of that.
It’s awful that so many self-proclaimed Christians are having premarital sex. XP
LikeLiked by 5 people
Like that awful guy in 1 Corinthians who Paul says has to be excommunicated.
I sometimes wish that Christians spent more time really articulating what love between a man and a woman looks like, so that people could at least have a clear distinction between us and them. Right now, I don’t see much of a distinction.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Exactly so.
Agreed, it seems like most examples of what love is are carnality (not real love) or very surface level romance like getting roses. I’m trying to get more comfortable writing about this topic and I’m in the process of drawing a comic about my personal journey looking for my future husband and the spiritual warfare I’ve witnessed.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I mean if we got down to what the greatest example of love is…it is Christ dying for our sins. It’s nothing like getting roses or having good feels all the time.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I know!!!! No one seems to take seriously the suffering of Jesus in his obedience to the Father.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Great post.
If a woman doesn’t respect her future husband enough to faithfully save herself for him, she’s not likely going to respect him more faithfully once he has married her. Don’t ask how I figured that out.
LikeLiked by 4 people
What truly concerns me is what “Women’s Ministries” are teaching young, impressionable Christian women. Nearly every one of these ministries that I have reviewed teaches the following message:
“Having pre-marital sex is wrong. BUT…BUT….BUT….don’t worry. If you have it’s NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL. GOD FORGIVES!!!! Forgiveness is what the Gospel is all about! Further, good Christian men will ALWAYS forgive you, and if you meet a Christian man who has concerns about your sexual past, he’s the one sinning by refusing to forgive you just as God has done.”
Young women hear this and conclude that there’s really nothing wrong with having premarital sex. After all, if Christian men have to forgive and marry them anyways, then why not?
Ironically, these ministries are incredibly hypocritical. When they’re teaching young women what they should look for in a man, they tell women that they should have the highest standards for the men they date, and that even the slightest deficiency is grounds for dismissal. The sword cuts both ways.
The bottom line is that marriage is not a moral obligation, and just because you are forgiven does not mean there will be no consequences. Christian men need to quit being so concerned about hurting women’s feelings and tell them the cold hard truth. Young women won’t change their ways if they see beta males caving and marrying these over 30, non-virgin women.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Yeah, if I had to say one thing about this attitude that is being transmitted from older Christian women to younger Christian women. It’s all about “don’t judge me”, “don’t shame me”, but even more “don’t tell me not to have fun”.
Do women really think that a Christian man can run a successful, influential marriage with that kind of self-centered rebellion never having been challenged? I have had one Christian women refuse to even pay off their student loans for marriage, if it meant having to get a real job and give up spending money on fun. They won’t listen to advice that gets them in shape for marriage. Even if the man asking has demonstrated achievements in that area.
And I agree that men can help fix the problem by telling these women why they are being passed over for marriage, then not marrying them.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I love this comment because it shows one major way (soy boy pastors preaching sugar-coated messages being another) that the churches are teaching a sort of spirit of Jezebel to women – through Womyn’s Ministries, LOL.
In our “christian” abortion mill is a sign that reads “God will forgive you for your abortion.” Rarely has the devil wrapped more evil around a piece of truth than with that sign.
“God will forgive you if you have that abortion, have premarital sex, get divorced, etc…” Presumptuous sinning is still sinning.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I can do whatever — I sin daily and Jesus still loves me.
That’s called the sin of presumption: That I can just go out and sin, and all i have to do is ask Jesus to forgive me, and He always will.
Except… The problem is the condition of her heart.
God wants and expects obedience and repentance. The above attitude is unrepentant and rebellious, and takes absolution and salvation for granted.
LikeLiked by 2 people
What does premarital sex tell a marriage minded man?
It says:
“I didn’t really want you. I wanted the hot guys who would have fun times and fun sex with me. I still don’t really want you – I’m accepting you now only because I couldn’t get one of those hot guys to commit.
“I am not sexually attracted to you. I was attracted to the hot guys I had sex with. I’m accepting you only because you’re the best I can do and I need to get this marriage and baby thing going.”
“I do not respect you. I respected the hot guys and did what they told me to do. I will NEVER do even what you ASK me to do.”
“I do not want marriage with you. I am accepting marriage with you because you’re the best I could do, I want commitment from somebody, ANYBODY, and well, you’ll just have to do. But I don’t really want to be married to you. I want my Special Day. I want my Wedding where I will be The Princess. I want to GET married. I just don’t want to BE married — especially not to you.”
LikeLiked by 2 people
This is it exactly. And instead of telling young women not to do this, that this will not work, the Christian parents and pastors keep encourage this plan, them turn to the good men later on and demand we risk our savings to make this “Christian” woman’s plan “work out” because she’s forgiven, and men have no rights to select a woman who fits with their Kingdom of God plan.
That’s all Christianity is now.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thinking about this a little more, I reflected on what I believed when I was young.
I prioritized sobriety, chastity, Christian apologetics, mentoring young Christians, charity, learning economics to battle communism, etc.
And this is what I found:
Christian women would say “I don’t have to follow your lead and learn these things and support you, because the things that you think are important don’t cause me to have the tingles.”
See, it’s not whether things are good for God that causes them to support and submit. It’s whether they are attracted to the guy. And that’s why so many Christian women get involved in missionary dating and missionary cohabitation and missionary marriage. They’re not looking for a man who serves God. They’re looking for a man who produces tingles in them. God, if he has any purpose, is there to guarantee success when they choose a guy who doesn’t have any interest in God.
So for a man, a relationship is about finding someone to help serve God. And for a woman, a relationship is about finding someone to help serve her.
LikeLike
I know less women are into deep reflection on the Bible. You can find many Christian guys willing to debate points on a topic like the trinity and how they see the division for example
The women I knew that even were committed Christians would prefer to talk about topics like love and had only a superficial view on doctrinal topics because the details didn’t matter to them
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m a 59 year old female virgin and will be so until marriage.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You’re excellent!
LikeLike
This comment section is a breath of fresh air. I’m a 28 y.o. virgin male, and based on what I’m seeing on the internet and what I’m seeing in the dating market, I do not have very much hope of meeting a virgin woman. I’m about to go on a second date with a woman I recently met at my church and will be initiating a conversation regarding our sexual history. I advise all young men (especially virgin young men) to bring up sexual history EARLY (dates 1-3). A girl who values sex will be glad you initiated the conversation. Additionally, it is a massive waste of time to date a girl for months only to find out that she’s a whore who “recommitted her life to Jesus”.
LikeLike
You can usually get a hint based on whether they are acting angry with men. Women who have been pumped and dumped 50 times turn into raging man-hating feminists. Instead of being happy and helpful and caring, they are always looking for the exits. They have trained themselves to avoid pain while breaking up. If a woman is trying to push the boundaries to care for you and invest in you, it’s because her heart has not been torn into pieces by casual sex and break ups with the bad boys she’s been attracted to, and has been choosing.
Along those lines, ask who her last boyfriends were, and what was the most attractive thing about them. If it’s looks, money, status, travel, etc. move on.
It’s also a good sign if the woman is comfortable with your moral and spiritual leadership. Try to make a few absolute claims about theology or morality, e.g. – “Only those who believe in Jesus will spend eternity with God” or “Marriage is designed to be between one man and one woman”.
I also find it useful, rather than asking about her sexual history, to just discuss the studies showing that a high number of sexual partners raises marital instability. Don’t get personal, just bring up the studies. I’ll bet you will be able to get your answer from her response to that.
LikeLike