So, in my last post, I explained why men have to be careful about choosing a wife. Men have plans and they need a woman with the right skills to achieve it. Even if a woman genuinely repents her past, she may not have developed the skills for a godly man’s marriage plan. For example, her 50K of student loans makes it harder to afford a stay-at-home homeschooling mother.
But many Christian women feel that there is no such thing as a Christian woman who is a bad candidate for marriage. It doesn’t matter what a Christian woman did in the past. A man should never evaluate her skills for the roles of wife and mother. After all, if God forgives a Christian woman for running up student loan debt for a useless women’s studies degree, or for getting drunk and sleeping around with hawt bad boys in college, then no Christian man should hold her past decisions against her when choosing a wife. Men are obligated to disregard the past anti-marriage decisions made by women. To do anything else is to deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So many Christian women say.
What would happen if the shoe were on the other foot? What if it were the MAN who had been selfish, lazy and irresponsible? What if the MAN had made choices that seriously harmed his ability to perform male marriage roles like protecting and providing for his wife and children? Would marriage-ready women be obligated to marry this man as much as a man who had remained chaste, got a good education, built up a gapless resume, saved enough for a downpayment on a house, and taught apologetics in his home church? Is she allowed to prefer a man who has made good decisions to prepare for his marriage roles over a man who has made horrible decisions, but just hollers “grace” when anyone questions his ability to be a husband and father?
This MUST-READ article from The Federalist asks and answers that question. (H/T Lindsay)
Do you agree with the author?
I think it’s time for a conversation about another elephant in the room: this idea that women prefer physically fit men with good jobs and no criminal record. It’s incredibly sexist and matriarchal to insist that women have a natural preference for men who have invested time and energy into stewarding their bodies, have shown the capability of earning a living and supporting a family, and have not gone to jail for attempting to grow 452 marijuana plants in their mother’s basement.
I know more than a few men who spent their twenties languishing in their parents’ homes, subsisting on Cheetos and Mountain Dew, playing Xbox, watching pornography, and smoking controlled substances. If one of these men turns his life around, accepts Jesus, and starts fresh, young women have no right to overlook him as a potential mate just because he is 280 pounds, has almost no marketable skills at 30 years old, and cannot vote, serve on a jury, or own a firearm. He is created in the image of God, and accepted by Jesus! Any women who would overlook every other noble quality he possesses for basic financial security and a clean background check (not to mention browsing history) isn’t a woman he should want.
Men like this have often long since repented of their listless and slothful ways. If the lingering consequences of their pasts didn’t stop Christ from living and dying for them, then it shouldn’t stop a Christian woman from loving them, either. Period.
The Federalist article makes it clear that a man’s poor choices about his education, job, obedience to the law, and physical fitness CLEARLY compromise his ability to perform his male duties to protect and provide. What about moral and spiritual leading? Well if he didn’t spent his teens and 20s studying apologetics, moral issues, etc. then he isn’t going to compare favorably to a man who teaches apologetics in his church, debates atheists, and writes blog posts for the Life Training Institute.
My friend Lee is a superb stay-at-home wife and mother. She says that we shouldn’t accept “Jesus forgives me” as an immediate reversal of past harmful choices:
I would note that there is a difference between just being forgiven of sin and actually repenting of it. Repenting is a turning away from and will manifest in changes; paying down debts, becoming chaste, becoming otherwise responsible and wise. Someone’s past doesn’t have to define their future. But that will manifest in observable and measurable changes.
She’s right.
I knew a Christian woman who had 25,000 worth of student loan debt when she was 29. She wasn’t using her degree, she was just working as a waitress. I found her a job as an IT project manager in an FT100 company, so she could pay off her loans. She declined, because “being a waitress is the easiest job I’ve ever had”. She hasn’t worked full-time as a professional since January 2013. She’ll say “Jesus forgives me!” and “I hate my student loans!”, but the loans are even larger now, and the wasteful spending on fun and thrills hasn’t stopped. Hollering “grace” and saying you hate debt doesn’t make you a good steward – and you’ll need to be a good steward if you are in a marriage. She’s not ready to manage the finances of a household. If she had taken the job, and paid off the loans, then she would have overcome the mistake, and become marriage-ready.
So what’s really behind the hysteria against men evaluating women for marriage?
Deti nails the real root problem:
Not one person – NOT ONE PERSON – said that nonvirgins with tattoos and debt are bad people; that they are irredeemable, that they’re bad Christians; that they cannot be Christians; that they’re unsalvageable; that they’re ugly; or that they couldn’t and shouldn’t marry. That is NOT what was said.
All that was said was that men prefer tattooless, debtfree virgins for marriage. That’s all.
[…]The bible… teaches repentance is the way to salvation. But repentance does not mean you no longer bear the scars of your past sins in body and mind. You do. Oh yes you do. The effects can be minimized, even overcome. But they’re still there.
And more to the point, what’s really being complained about here is a Christian woman acknowledging that men have preferences and that men are entitled to have preferences. If women want men, then they have to satisfy those preferences or lower their standards until they find men whose preferences they can satisfy.
This can’t be overemphasized – it’s the idea that men have preferences. Its’ the idea that there’s a man that’s one-half of that relationship, and there are things HE wants, and HE needs, and HE desires. Why does it matter what HE wants? Why do we care about him?
Men don’t want to marry high N women. Men don’t want to take on debt and they don’t prefer markedup tatted up women who look and act like men.
What this gets down to is women objecting to men having standards. Because that leads to men judging women. And that leads to men evaluating women. And that leads to men rejecting some women and accepting others. And women hate judgment and rejection, especially when it’s “less than” men who are doing the judging and rejecting.
One of my editors for this post (Mary) didn’t think that some readers would know what N refers to, so I’ll tell you. N refers to the number of sexual partners a person has had.
The reason we discuss best practices for marriage-minded women is so that young women, especially young women who lack a father in the home, can get some kind of guidance about how to resist the culture’s lies about men, sex and marriage. Such a woman has NOWHERE TO GO in this culture in order to learn how to relate to men, and how to marry to a man who will love her faithfully and forever. That’s not fair! We have to help her!
What Christian men are doing by promoting chastity, sobriety, good stewardship and self-control to these young women is protecting them from a culture that lies to them. The well-meaning Christian women who think that talking about moral boundaries and wisdom will hurt the feelings of women who have made mistakes are actually making it harder for young women who have no guidance at all. The most vulnerable ones are the ones who need to hear that chastity is wise. Doing a STEM degree is wise. Getting out of debt by spending less is wise. Not seeking attention with graffiti on your body is wise. That’s what unmarried women need to hear.
It’s amazing to me that so many Christians do not understand the protective value of recommending Biblical morality and Biblical wisdom to young women. They would rather sacrifice these young women to the secular culture than allow older women to feel bad about their past decisions. So many Christians seem to be more concerned about their own feelings than about promoting and defending what the Bible teaches to young people who really need help.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
https://lexetiustitia.wordpress.com/2018/07/19/christian-women-demand-men-marry-sluts-with-debt-and-tattoos/
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“Captain save a ho” that’s so mean. I am surprised that boundless disagreed with this article, though. I’ll have to qualify them as center-left going forward.
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I was blocked and banned from their Facebook page and group. Lori Alexander triggered them to the point where it was comic relief to read their private posts. I had an excellent comment that I will have to rebuild. The point of it is this: women replace Christ with a man, and expect him to be their personal Christ, who washes away their sins.
The husbands role is to sanctify his wife, and wash her in the word. However, nothing a man can do takes away the sin of a woman (or anyone else). However, these women believe that by coming to Christ, they will get the 100% male package with zero flaws, because # reasons.
It’s the prosperity gospel applied to relationships. And it shows how immature and faithless many women are.
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As per me and preferences, I am faced with the following dilemma: going after my peer group (near 30, declining fertility and beauty) or going at least 5 years younger (demographics leave no in between).
My problems are this: why do I have to accept the concept that I won’t marry a woman at the peak of her beauty, and trade that for someone who is physically past their prime?
I have noticed through observation that women who marry young maintain a type of beauty and glow not found in women who marry closer to, or older than, 30.
There really is something about a single woman over 25 that causes rapid weight gain and fading looks. “Old maid” was coined for a reason
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The most beautiful women I have ever seen in my life are three Catholic women who each had 9+ children, have never used hormones (obviously), and look at least 20 years younger than they are.
They all started having childen young, because you have to if you are going to have that many. And they all get mocked for having a big family, even from other so-called “Christians.”
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Yep. I’m not catholic, but I am glad that they haven’t caved on family and birth control. It’s a sin the Protestant churches need to repent of
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I agree 100%!
I’m still shocked by how many non-Catholic Christians, and strong ones at that, do not know how awful just about every form of contraception is for the woman in particular – just in terms of physical and emotional issues, purely on the science alone.
And that goes beyond the abortifacient forms of “contraception.”
The spiritual problems associated with not being open to Life are also in play, but more subtle.
Sadly, even many Catholics are not aware of these horrible things.
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You need to move the needle a bit farther. FoF as a whole is center-left, Boundless and Lisa Anderson are lost…
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It’s an obvious yes answer. But the show was on the other foot in my case. I was the back-slidden Christian. I was the who had been divorced, whoring around, smoking pot, drinking, addicted to pornography and living back at my parents, I was working but just making ends meet (I had destroyed everything). When I met my spouse (now married 32 years) I had 1 year earlier wholly rededicated my life to serving Christ, had miraculously been delivered from my addictions and attending services several times a week – it was a sincere and complete turn-around. At 23 my wife, who I attended a large church with (but had never met), were introduced on a Missions trip to Mexico. She was the ‘model beautiful’ virgin, the one with a professional degree and had walked extremely closely with Christ since childhood. Long story short, I told her most of my past (sparing her the worst most graphic details) and yet she didn’t hesitate in marrying me- and had no desire to change me-leaving that up to God. The truth was, I knew I didn’t deserve her then nor do I now. She is a unique God adoring wife. In conclusion, we can’t leave out the prompting of the Holy Spirit and the restorative power of grace from the equation. God can bless even those who were the worst of men and women and their bad decision making. That all said, and as I know you agree, without a strong foundation, and complete dedication to loving Christ and your spouse, any marriage is at risk for failure. Yes grace covers all, but it’s also true that fools rush in, so marry with your eyes wide open- but always leave room for a miracle.
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They do in the minds of sensible people! A man is just as entitled as a woman to set high standards for his one and only!!! Men are no more slaves than women in relationships, and deserve a devoted wife..
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I’ve never understood the negative reaction to that post by Lori Alexander. My difficulty as a father is in raising a daughter to understand these things while the culture, even within the church, is pushing a message that will likely lead to nothing but pain with no purpose.
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Because feminist ideology puts the wants and whims of the woman first. So whatever she does is fine because it makes her happy and anyone who dares criticize that behavior to any degree (as proven by this outburst) is wrong.
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What’s striking is when you try to explain to Christian parents, teachers and pastors that you need a marriage that serves God more than the two singles can do on their own, they mostly give you a blank look and say that the purpose of marriage is to make women happy.
My SBC pastor got this exactly right though, although his church wasn’t preparing women to make a difference at the university or in the political realm. Which are the two places I care about.
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“that the purpose of marriage is to make women happy.”
I’ve heard them say that to men about their roles, but never about marriage itself.
I don’t think you can biblically support sending your daughters off to college or into politics. I think in almost every case it is unwise and borderline unscriptural.
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Considering the fact that nobody has any obligation to marry or get into a relationship at all, each person is perfectly within their rights in rejecting anybody for any reason or for no reason. If we have the right to reject people for no reason at all, then we can’t be blamed for rejecting people even for arbitrary reasons. So I don’t understand why people get up in arms over being rejected for having a shady past or for being unattractive of anything. Nobody OWES anybody a date.
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I think some women have a strange inclination to believe that they should be allowed to do whatever they feel like, and then be immune to the bad consequences that result from their choices. And parents and pastors, instead of telling them their mistake, and warning young women not to repeat those mistakes, prefer to blame men and bully men into giving those women what they want so their desires “work out”. I think men need to avoid those women, and focus on the ones who have self-control and personal responsibility. Which is why Lori tells women that they should be virgins (self-control) and debt-free (more self-control) if they expect men to marry. Lori is the only one telling women the truth.
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I consider a lot of it to be looking for indicators as to how they make decisions. Are they a wisdom based person that if a marriage gets dull or hard will stick to the commitment if there is no reason to leave a partner.
Or do they make all decisions based upon feelings in which case they will give up easy. Likely have a hard time directing kids becaue they want to let them off without consequence for bad behaviours.
If you see the negatives of tattoos, debt etc. Spend more time praying and being alert to make sure they are not just pretending to be agreeable in the early relationship until they have you hooked.
The big difference being wisdom based people don’t just give up on a relationship becaue it is less fun and you don’t want to be unequally yoked with a partner that will have a lower commitment level in the relationship
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This is EXCELLENT:
“I consider a lot of it to be looking for indicators as to how they make decisions. Are they a wisdom based person that if a marriage gets dull or hard will stick to the commitment if there is no reason to leave a partner.
Or do they make all decisions based upon feelings in which case they will give up easy. Likely have a hard time directing kids becaue they want to let them off without consequence for bad behaviours.”
It is 100% reasonable for men to question a woman, and then decide from their demonstrated choices and achievements whether they are prepared for the roles they will play in a marriage.
But if you say that, then you will have a ton of Christian parents and pastors coming down on you for “judging women”. Christianity is no longer Christianity, now it’s just a bunch of words that mean “let women do whatever they want, and you men kill yourselves to make it work out for them”. Then they wonder why men don’t go to church.
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1 Timothy 5:9-10
9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.
10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
Turns out God has standards for women’s behavior as well. Even for something so dire as a destitute widow.
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Of course most Christians forget the “now go and sin no more” part.
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HI girls at 2BandS.
I see you picked up on point 4.
Again: Facts don’t care about your feelings. Fact is, women do this.
It’s women choice to NOT do this.
It’s ultimately up to YOU.
And what do you care if a man breaks up with you? All you have to do is go get another one. It’s the easiest thing in the world for a woman to get another man.
Have the courage to face the truth.
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To the hens over at Two Birds and a Stone who are dissecting the comments here:
1) Facts don’t care about your feelings.
2) You need the courage to face the truth.
3) The fact that young nonvirgins fornicate immediately to get a man is not Biblical or palatable to you, does not mean that that fact does not exist.
4) I don’t recommend that young nonvirgins fornicate immediately to get a man. I acknowledge that (a) it’s an option; and (b) a lot of women actually do this in an effort to get men.
5) Whether young nonvirgins fornicate or not is something women, and individual women in particular, have to decide for themselves.
6) That women bear the scars of their promiscuity in their bodies and psyches is simply FACT. And you all need to deal with that and accept it. Again – facts don’t care about your feelings.
7) I don’t have to pick any lanes. It’s women choice to either (a) fornicate and let the chips fall where they may; or (b) marry young and do the best they can there as well. It is up to WOMEN, not men, to make that call. And overwhelmingly, women choose (a).
Maybe if you hens would cooperate in this regard and get your younger sisters in Christ to choose (b), women would be better off.
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I work with women, who by their mid-twenties, have popped out children with 3-4 different baby daddies, none who’ve they ever been married to lawfully!! Would I, or any other self respecting man, want that? NO!!! I see obese, clown haired tatted up/pierced up feminist SJW and hipsters, who curse like dockworkers, and lack a moral compass. Do I want that? NO!! Am I obligated to take this? NO!! I’m now 61, never married, and I have a 29 year old never married beautiful Armenian gf I was introduced to by my 31 year old niece. I have NO desire to be with a rode hard and hung out wet woman in her 50s+ who has other men’s children. NO, men don’t have to take crumbs from the table, and settle for problematic women. Feminist and SJW baloney!!
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Hello. For the purpose of getting my question asked I have provided the below quote.
“The reason we discuss best practices for marriage-minded women is so that young women, especially young women who lack a father in the home, can get some kind of guidance about how to resist the {{{culture’s lies about men, sex and marriage.}}}”
My question is can you write a post on your viewpoint on the cultures lies about men, sex and marriage? I am curious about what your take is on that.
Thank you.
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Don’t women learn their own set of priorities in choosing?
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Yes, but this a famous example of the male / female double-standard. Nany women who feel entitled to insist in a certain height, a certain income, tattoos, fancy car, etc. are appalled that men have any standards.
How can a handbag or a shoe refuse a woman? Who gave them agency and free will to lead a relationship?
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You have a point. If one treats the other–or both as mere trophies….the relationship is a farse—a very hurtful one!
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