In the last few months, I’ve met 5 different Christian women in their 30s who all asked me the same question: where are all the good men who want to marry me?
Christian men’s rights blogger Dalrock had two different posts where he described the answer to this question.
Here is the first post from Dalrock that concisely illustrates the problem:
As I wrote in A very long season, feminists don’t want to waste a day more of their youth and fertility on their husbands than absolutely necessary. As if to prove this very point, 30 year old Mona Chalabi writes in the NY Times* I Want My 2.3 Bonus Years:
If I could prolong my time as a young adult by, say, 2.3 years, here is a list of things I would like to do:
• Go to more parties. Preferably wild parties that I can think about, years later, at mild parties.
[…]• Have more romantic partners.
[…]• Get a bit higher up the career ladder a bit earlier on. That would probably boost my earnings, giving me more financial security. I could use that money to go to more parties, get a membership to a fancy gym and maybe even meet a romantic partner on the ab machines.
To drive the message home, the image at the top of the article is a cartoon of a resentful Chalabi giving her future husband the side eye for her lost years of sampling penises!
Surely, this must be an isolated case just for New York Times feminists, right? It’s not widespread, is it?
Second post from Dalrock:
Margaret Wente at the Globe and Mail* asks where all the good men have gone. Wente comes to the conclusion that women need a sex cartel:
…it’s up to us to make the rules. “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” my father used to say. It drove me crazy when he said that. Now, it’s dawned on me that he was right.
Since the women’s cartel collapsed, women’s bargaining power has seriously eroded. That’s why so many single women hate Tinder, which has further commodified sex for the benefit of men. Women are just another consumer good in the shop window.
The apex fallacy aside, Wente is partially right. Women (as a group) have signaled to men that what they really want are exciting sexy badboys, not boring loyal dudes. It isn’t that women no longer want to marry beta providers, they just don’t want to waste a day more of their youth and fertility on their husband than absolutely necessary.
As a result, some up and coming boring loyal dudes aren’t knocking themselves out in their twenties while they wait for their future wife to tire of having sex with other men.
If you wonder why men are no longer performing in school, and exchanging careers for video games, the answer is simple. Men have realized that young women today, under the influence of feminism, are not interested in traditional husbands during their late teens and 20s. During these years, women are interested in travel, fun, drinking, hook-ups and cohabitation with amoral atheists. This is what I have personally observed. In the minds of young women, the highest value men are good-looking men who have no religion, and make no moral judgments, and are left of center politically – especially on abortion. There are many good men who are romantic about women from their youth, and want to get married. But when they see what young women really want, they just give up on school and work, since doing the traditional male roles has no value to young women. Many good men even give up on morality and Christianity because they want a relationship with a woman so badly.
More from second post:
What Wente doesn’t understand is that timing is everything. From an economic point of view, women are dividing up sexual access that traditionally would have been reserved only for their husband into two blocks. The first block contains their most attractive and fertile years, and it is dedicated to no strings sex with exciting badboys. Then, once women reach what Rollo calls the epiphany phase, they want to bargain sexual access in their remaining (older and less fertile) years for maximum beta bucks.
The problem with this strategy is (generally speaking) not that the previously overlooked beta men will refuse to marry the suddenly reformed party girls. The problem is that young men now look at the men 3-5 (and even 5-10) years older than them and don’t see an indication that signaling provider status will make them attractive to women. They also see a society that holds married fathers in contempt**. Most of these men are still working hard in their late teens and twenties to prepare to signal provider status in their 30s. But a growing minority of young men are no longer doing so. These men are instead working like women. Once the reformed party girls are ready to find Mr. Beta Bucks, there is a shortage of 30 something men who fit the bill. Even worse, no amount of complaining or shaming will cause the missing beta providers to go back in time and spend the prior decade preparing for this moment.
I’m one of the last men who followed the marriage-preparedness script for traditional men who wanted to marry and have four children and have a stay-at-home homeschooling mom to raise them from birth to graduate school. I find myself now in my early 40s, with a 6-figure income and a nearly 7-figure net worth. I declined to use those assets to play the field with hot bad girls, preferring instead to keep my sexual past completely clean for my eventual wife. However, what I observed in my late teens and 20s and even early 30s was a complete lack of interest in marriage ability, from non-Christian women and Christian women alike. Christian women aren’t learning to value early marriage from their married parents or their evangelical churches. None of the traditional husband skills are valued by young women, i.e. – chastity, gapless resume, alcohol abstinence, undergraduate and graduate STEM degrees, experience nurturing and mentoring others, stewardship of earned income.
I recently caused an uproar on my Facebook page by saying that even if the perfect woman showed up right now to marry me, I would not pursue her because the critical time where the woman could have applied maximum youth, beauty and fertility as a wife to make an impact on my education, early career, health, and finances has passed. A younger woman develops value to her husband precisely by applying herself to him and to her family in these critical early years. Men who have experienced this self-sacrificial love and support are loyal to their wives even after their wives lose their youth and beauty. Why? Because the men know that they are much better than they could have been, having enjoyed that early investment of value made by their young wives.
As Christian writer Matt Walsh notes in a recent article at the Daily Wire, this “follow your heart” focus on happiness in women is lethal to marital stability, and men know it.
Excerpt:
There was an article in Cosmo this week with a title that summarizes all that’s wrong with Cosmo and modern society as a whole: “I eloped at 25, divorced at 26, and dated my way across Europe all summer.” Of course, by “dated my way across Europe” she means that she slept with half the continent.
The author, Elise, says she “started fighting” with her husband and within a few months they both decided that their differences were irreconcilable. Despite counseling, she says, “neither of us was happy.” So, exhausted from 12 whole months of marriage, Elise embarked on a voyage of self-discovery and STD cultivation. She met random dudes in half a dozen countries and had sex with them, learning quite a lot as she went, though she can’t really explain what exactly she learned or why sex was a necessary component in learning it. Finally, she came home and started dating some other guy. The end.
Well, not really the end. 20 years from now I’m sure we’ll get the follow up article: “I’m alone and miserable and it’s everyone’s fault but mine.” After all, you may be able to fill the emptiness in your soul with frivolous sex when you’re young and physically desirable, but that phase is fleeting. People who don’t want to “waste” their beauty and youth on a spouse, so they waste it instead on strangers who don’t love them or even care what happens to them tomorrow, will be shocked when a tomorrow comes where even strangers aren’t interested anymore. This is where the single-minded, utterly selfish pursuit of “happiness” at all costs inevitably leads: to rejection, despair, and a quiet, unnoticed death on a lonely hospital bed.
As Elise helpfully demonstrated, “do what makes you happy” is poison in a marriage. Many a vow has been broken because one or both partners decide to chase “happiness” instead of commitment, fidelity, and love. “I deserve to be happy,” reports the legion of serial divorcees, as they drift on to the next spouse, and the next, and the next, and the next, looking for the one — the one, finally — who might cure the misery they’ve inflicted on themselves. Increasingly unhappy, yet increasingly convinced that they deserve to be.
And this follow your heart to happiness situation is alive and well in the church today. Marriage-minded Christian men who have prepared for husband roles are surprised to find that there is often little or no difference between Elise and the Christian women the church produces. Christian men who desire to invest in a marriage that is stable, productive and influential have nowhere to turn for a wife who is able and willing to help. In my experience, the problem with happiness-focused women who delay marriage is never discussed in churches from the pulpit. The “good men to marry” that today’s 30-something women are looking for were plentiful back when those same women were in their early-to-mid 20s.
WINTERY KNIGHT 
Exactly. What isn’t talked about enough is that this practice is alive and well inside the church. Glad you brought it up.
No, not every church-going single Christian woman is having sex across Europe, nor her own city or town. What is alive and well. Is a very, very passive-aggressive attitude towards men. Here are some of the qualities an average, Christian woman wants in a man. These of course are not too much to expect by someone who has been “Saved” because a real man will meet everyone of her requirements. If not? He is a wretched boy who refuses to “man up” and better himself. Here is a very short list of what he must have in order to marry an average looking, boring, zero personality Christian woman that fills 90% of the pews in the USA today! Remember, these requirements are not a complete list.
He is to be a leader (but that “leadership” is never clearly defined, as long as his leadership also doesn’t make her mad or uncomfortable), he is to be good looking on a cultural standard. He is to have money saved for his future children for their college fund. A down payment READY for a brand new house, and if he doesn’t have that at 21???? Shame on him!!! He has all the opportunities in the world because he was born a man!!!!!! He will have a well paying job at 21, 22, 34, 36, 45. He is to be a man with a plan, have it all figured out, be outgoing…but not too outgoing, be confident (what she really means is arrogant), and bold, 100000 million percent for Jesus….but only when it benefits her. He should be able to fix all her problems, but yet be belittled in front of other men, ex-boyfriends and other female cliques in the church. He should know divination, ESP, and mind reading and be able to know exactly when she is PMS-ing so her can adjust his behavior to make her life easier. He should be sensitive and caring……but not too sensitive because that would make him a wuss. He should be exactly like Jesus. He WILL cause envy with all the other women in the church and if he is a reformed bad-boy, she will get the credit for “bringing him to Jesus” also remember, if he is a bad-boy…..all the above requirements go out the window until she gets buyers remorse……so then she can blame him for her bad choices…….He will have an amazing testimony, and will have done at least 3 mission trips by the time he is 25.
All of this to “pursue” an average woman, past her prime for children for the most part, and be a “yes my queen” servant and still miss the mark. To be reminded every month for a ring that cost WAY more than two months salary, and other bills for an overpriced wedding. An average wedding (Christian or not) costs well over 25K today….and takes several YEARS to pay off.
We hear ALL THE TIME how men won’t step up. Wont be “men” and won’t pursue.
The only thing too many Christian women in the USA bring to the table is: sex, and from all the books…….sermons, help guides online, classes…it’s only to be given begrudgingly or only for “making children”
or when he is a “good boy” for a few months.
The princess complex / mentality within the church walls today is stifling. All she has to do is just “show up”
This is a stark reason why so many men inside the church are frankly done, and will never marry.
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Don’t forget the thousands for the wedding costs. And she isn’t paying for it, with her 20K of outstanding student loans!
I’m fine with a woman in her mid-20s coming up to me and asking for all that stuff from me when she’s 25 and debt-free. That’s reasonable. If she is promising to not withhold sex, to be stay at home wife and mother, to homeschool / private school the kids, and to navigate them through college and to the workplace, and help them find mates, then that’s real value to me. I’d be willing to work to age 65 for a wife and kids and grand kids. But when the woman shows up at 35, what is the value proposition to to the man? I did all the work myself, already.
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AANNND don’t forget the tens to hundreds of thousands which the ex-husband will pay in alimony and ‘child support’ (even if he isn’t the children’s biological father), plus the cost of the house, car, and other properties, when the ex-Party Princess tires of being his wife, becomes “unhaaappy”, and files for divorce.
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This is my great worry about women and marriage.
I’ve read a lot of books and studies on why women initiate 69% of divorces and my take-away lesson was that it is because they have this idea that marriage is going to make them happy without them having to do anything. They are looking for relationships that create no expectations and obligations on them, and they are terrified about being “trapped” into long-term commitments that don’t fulfill their needs. They expect marriage to be “happily ever after” – without them having to do anything self-sacrificial.
I can remember my own mother telling my father that he promised her a house on a hill and two servants whenever he asked her to do anything around the house. He ended up doing all the cooking and the cleaning, too. Anything that she didn’t feel like doing, she didn’t do. Men need to understand that marriage requires them to hazard all their assets to this sort of passive entitlement. The woman’s perception of marriage is that she does nothing, and everyone around her exists for her happiness. Even her children, which is why so many women today are happy dumping them in daycare to get back to work.
That’s what I am looking at, this perception is that marriage is for women. Anything that goes wrong is the man’s fault for not meeting her needs. I think that if that is the deal, I’m not interested, and I’ve never yet met a young, unmarried woman who had any idea that marriage would involve any work for her. She wants to do whatever she feels like doing to be happy, moment by moment, with no plan for the marriage to be effective and influential. No thought that the marriage has to count for anything above her own immediate needs for happiness.
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‘He ended up doing all the cooking and the cleaning, too. Anything that she didn’t feel like doing, she didn’t do.’
With a helpmate like that…he would of just been better off single
(notwithstanding the fact you wouldn’t be here…but I hope you get my point)
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WK, that is an atrocious thing to say. A woman is only worth the work she does for you? If you really believe this, you don’t want a wife, you want a servant, and that, you can easily find at any time. Go for it!
A woman, just like any human being, has intrinsic value. If you want a companion you can love, and serve, and enjoy, and bring closer to Christ, and support through the difficulties of life, and cry with, and rejoice with, and die for—someone who is not like you, who sees the world differently as a woman, who brings joy and beauty to the home you share, who sharpens you spiritually and intellectually, through whom God will make you more holy to your dying day (not just until she’s 35)—that, and much more, is the value of a woman.
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I think part of the problem we are seeing with women who delay marriage is that they are unable to state why men would marry at all. They think that it is their birthright to demand whenever they get around to it, and just assume that men will be there, and have no expectations whatsoever. I had a plan for my marriage. No one showed up in the time period when I felt it was a fair exchange of value. You may disagree with my view of value but it’s not your decision who I marry. It’s mine.
Men don’t marry for the same reasons women do, and no amount of pouting is a substitute for what a woman in her early-to-mid 20s offers a man at the time when he is facing struggles in his education, early career, health, finances, and sex life. If my struggles were not a priority for women back then, then surely the needs of women NOW that I have matured on my own steam is similarly none of my concern. The issue is timing. The investment has maximum impact in a specific time period, and women have more of what influences a man when they are younger. For one thing, children. For another, sex drive. For a third, physical attractiveness.
I wonder how far a man would get by talking about “intrinsic value” while refusing to do any of the canonical husband duties – like being the main provider? That’s a question women never ask themselves, in my experience. I wonder why that is? Regardless, it certainly makes my decision to fly solo an easy one. I find the comments trying to shame and bully me into a forced marriage terrifying, to say the least.
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Yeah how often do women talk about the man’s ‘intrinsic value’. They sure do forget about it when they are not happy and initiate divorce.
I think you know the reason…women are run by their feelings and emotions and seem to think those dictate the world. It’s no surprise a lot of them feel like they can delay marriage for their fun phase and then expect a man to be there when they are 35. Then they get all mad when their feelings don’t produce the desired results because that’s not how reality works.
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(Responding to a couple comments here:) I think we’re talking past each other. I’m not challenging the idea that women ought to live moral lives and seek marriage early, nor am I challenging the idea that both men and woman ought to have standards regarding who they would consider marrying. I’m responding to the idea that you would not marry “the perfect woman” once you’re both over 35 because she can’t offer any value as a wife. My point is merely that a spouse’s value extends beyond wallet or womb.
The situation of the former druggie (see My 2 Cents’ comment) is not analogous. If we’re talking about rejecting “the perfect woman” because she’s over 35, this is analogous: If I were to meet a man of proven good character who happened to have lost his material wealth (not because of character issues), I wouldn’t automatically rule him out as a spouse. This is because a husband is more than a wallet.
This is not to say that you, personally, must get married, or even that you should get married. If you truly don’t think a woman has value as a wife if you marry her after 35, I don’t think you should get married. All I’m saying is that if you would reject “a perfect woman” merely because you’re both over 40, you would miss out on the value God would bring to your life through her. In other words, I’m answering your question, “What is the value proposition to the man?” for a “perfect woman” of noble character who is over 35—the situation you say you would reject—by saying there is value to a wife of noble character, barren or not.
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Amy Hall we are biological creature. Most women are looking men with the same social status or more. If she well educated and make a high income she wants the same in a man. Men prefer fertile women because it’s due to his biology.
Also women in their 30’s are less feminine as a whole. Women are used to be single and not wanting to be submissive. Women want to be the head of the house hold and control the man for various reasons.
Women that aren’t submissive will be spending money that is out of control.
You think that a woman in her 30’s is a perfect woman but in a man’s eyes she is not in most cases. You also forget women in their 30’s and older are more likely have miscarriages, birth defects and other complications.
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mikekto, “perfect woman” was Wintery Knight’s words, not mine.
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Amy,
I’m not trying to troll you or insult you. This is an honest question, and I genuinely want to know the answer.
Suppose a 43 year old man started attending your church. He’d just gotten saved after more than 20 years of drinking, drugs, and perpetual unemployment. He’s out of shape, and doesn’t do well with grooming and other acts of appearance. However, he’s interested in finding a wife and approaches you promising that he’s ready to love you no matter what and be at your side as a companion you can love.
Would you consider marrying such a person based on his intrinsic value as a person?
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(See my response to WK above.)
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Men realize they have to survive in a cold, hard world, early on, usually in their teens. One way to help with that is spiritual awareness. A little support goes a long way. Women assume they will be protected- by hubby, by the state, by somebody. I enjoy few things more than seeing a woman in her mid-40’s who decides to dump her husband, because she can “do better”. She finds she can do better… and then gets dumped herself. Then, after having made the false accusations against her husband, and totally destroying her rapport with him… she wants to slingback to him. Only now he knows she cannot be trusted. My mechanic has 4 kids; and a court order so he can’t even go back to the house he pays for. OK. His ex’s new boyfriend dumped her. Now the ex has realized that paying child support is actually cheaper than living with his ex, in marriage, because she spends money like it was infinite. PLUS, there are 10 women in his age group looking for men, even for just casual relationships, for every one of him. PLUS he has a good excuse for why he can’t get married again. What is the carrot for him to go back? There isn’t one. I’ve seen this pattern many times, in the last 20 years. My first wife monkey-branched me. Hey, ok I got custody of my kid, she wants out, as long as I don’t have to pay her, no problem. She is now insane, living in homeless shelters. My second wife decided to play around only 2 years in. No problem, I divorced her, and cut her off completely. No kids, no house… no alimony or child support. She passed on, from a drug OD. She couldn’t find another man willing to be with her for more than a night. I have a child with my current wife, who was raised in a traditional family. If this wife goes, I will use Chi Kung methods to shut down my sex drive. Most women in the USA are utterly crazy. They are dangerous. Poisonous snakes are beautiful, but that doesn’t mean I want to sleep with one. I see more and more men above 40 who tell women they only want sex, and do not want her to even spend the night- for legal reasons. Women cannot understand cause and effect. Gutting a man, and hanging him up to bleed out in divorce court, is an object lesson for at least 300 men.
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I think this is a problem where women want to do what feels right to them, (behave selfishly, in the moment), but their plan doesn’t work unless they live in a society where men haven’t been damaged by this, or become cautious from seeing it happen to other men.
In my case, I didn’t see this happen to me, or anyone near me. All I did was read about it in books and in studies on what women are doing and saying during their peak fertility years. They want marriage if it is understood as “someone will commit to give me what I want, and I’ll be respected by those around me”, but they don’t want it until they have used their youth and beauty to bed as many hot bad boys as they can. Some of them never learn.
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Another feminist! But like previously said, “they squandered THEIR youth humping exciting men, then EXPECT Mr reliable to cater to her. Sharpen me spiritually? How’s so? A woman’s touch? Read a little more and see how the female population has financially RAPED the men!!!! I have seen only a few that have what used to be called “good marriages”! Mostly all the rest the females were not haaaaaaaapy! So all the old hags can die alone and their are always young hot bodies willing and able, just don’t get them pregnant! Vasectomy, Vasectomy, Vasectomy! GOOD LUCK!!!! MGTOW!!!!
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Sadly, your observations are all too accurate. Reminds me of some things I’ve written:
Cornering Your Market
Mastering Modern Love
Liberation Fatigue and the New Sexual Renegades
For what it’s worth, you count as a sexual renegade. That’s a good thing.
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Yes…quite a few writings I’ve read from theologians in the Catholic church when talking about chastity is that you see the person in their entirety. They aren’t an outlet for your sexual pleasure…so you get to know their personality traits, relationships with family and friends, etc. Basically you don’t treat them like an object. I often wonder why some men/women keep going to the slaughterhouse choosing bad news women/men and I think living an unchaste lifestyle could be the root of it.
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Reblogged this on Site Title and commented:
The values of the Ten Commandments, whether the society believes their Godly source or not, are what produce the best, lasting results for any people.
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A close friend of mine was divorced by his wife. She first cheated on him with another man. She then initiated the divorce. He begged her to try marital counseling and wanted desperately to save their marriage. She refused.
They went to divorce court. The judge awarded his wife full custody of their 2 children and 90% of my friends assets. This story makes me quite wary of marriage with a threat like this hanging over your head.
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The court’s/system’s bias ignores suitability for raising children. A former lawyer, formerly married with kids, now writer and bias-fighter is Leon Kozoil (NY) is bringing the many reasons for the bias.
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The women asking that question are usually those who are in their thirties and older; they have also been asking that question for at least the last thirty to forty years.
I think that they keep asking that question because the answer (or rather, answers) that they are given are — simply put — those that they don’t want to hear.
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‘In my experience, the problem with happiness-focused women who delay marriage is never discussed in churches from the pulpit.’
Probably because they’d be unhaaaaaaapy to hear the truth. The big problem is both sexes have flipped the script and gave up their God given roles.
Now the husband is basically the ‘helpmate’ to a wife who worships herself.
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I think it is easy for either gender to sit back and catalog the selfishness of the other gender because we’re all terribly selfish as humans. The default for everyone– men or women– is to seek their own happiness at the cost of others because we’re sinful. Men and women are each prone to doing this in our own ways. Critiques like this are easy to mount and oh-so-delectable because that image of the selfish, uncaring, entitled woman will ring true in the experience of many men. But the reverse is also true– the selfish, uncaring, entitled man is also true in the experience of many women. For your “horror stories” about “terrible” women, I could tell equal horror stories about “terrible” men. That’s because it’s human nature, not “male” or “female” nature that is to blame. But I could also tell stories of men and women committed to life together for the sake of the gospel and of their joy….of single men and women choosing God over culture even when it’s deeply costly. This church doesn’t need to single out young unmarried women as the object of censure any more than we need to single out young unmarried men. What we do need, as a church, is a robust reminder of God’s plan for men, women, marriage and singleness that shows our culture a beauty they cannot understand. I think Tim Keller’s book on marriage does a great job at unmasking selfishness as the root cause of so many of our flawed relationship expectations and then making a gospel-based case for marriage. I know plenty of young women who are interested in marriage for gospel reasons and ready to do the hard work involved. I was one of them (and still am).
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The difference between the horror stories that men and women tell is simple.
1) Women tell horror stories about the bad boys they are attracted to and choose to engage with sexually. They complain that they did not get the results they wanted from these bad boys. In short, they expected bad boys to act like good men if given sex, but when they didn’t it’s a horror story. And those bad boys were not chosen because they exhibited any signs of wanting commitment or being capable of it. Similarly, married women tell horror stories about the bad boys they freely chose to marry, above all the other men in the world, and try to pretend they are victims even though they are (again) choosing bad boys who they are attracted to instead of men who can do the husband job. In short, women complain about bad boys they freely chose.
2) Men like tell horror stories about Christian-raised girls (ostensibly “good girls”) who delay marriage to play the field. Although men like me have the work history, income and savings to support a marriage and four kids, we cannot get any good girls to engage in the marriage plan because they are attracted to bad boys, and using desperate means (oral sex on the first date, etc.) to go for bad boys. In short, men complain about women who refuse to choose marriage.
Do you see the problem now?
Also, most of the girls who are raised in the church aren’t marriage-ready even if they are not doing this. I have yet to meet an unmarried Christian who had read even the most basic book on evidential apologetics, which is basically just a signal to marriage-ready men that she’s not serious about engaging the culture and protecting her children from lies. They haven’t prepared themselves to do the job in this environment. The most common case I see though is the Christian woman raised in a married Christian home who goes atheist from 18-32 and then suddenly goes back to being a Christian as her youth and beauty are fading.
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Excellent response, Ani.
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Whaaaaaatt???? I can’t help it if all the men I’m friends are either virgins or married as virgins. The only divorced one married as a virgin, and his wife developed a mental illness after that. I don’t hang out with bad men, so naturally, I don’t KNOW any bad men. We don’t do bad men things. I’m sure there are *some* bad men out there but I never hear about them. I only meet the 36 and 37 year old Christian reverts who had bulimia, alcoholism and cohabitated with atheists in their 20s. They were all raised in married Christian homes, and just went crazy and now they want marriage in their mid to late 30s.
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WK, if your social circle is admittedly limited, why are you reacting to the suggestion that not all men reflect the qualities of your social circle?
More important, citing your observations from your own social circle says nothing about whether or not the Ani comment is accurate or scripturally sound. Nothing.
You know how to think logically. Do it here.
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Yes, yes, I was just explaining myself. I approved her comment.
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The structural bias at all levels is totally palpable. It is the power and it encourages godless choices.
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Unfortunately, our legal system serves only the female side. So, while both sexes are flawed, sinful, and selfish, the system serves the female.
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From what I’ve heard, a big part of the problem is that women find the traits that make a man a good husband to be boring, that is, sexually unattractive.
In the past, many more women than today were willing to accept that as part of life, and specifically being tied to an unattractive husband as a necessary consequence of greater economic security for themselves and their children.
Economic “independence” for women – not truly, because they still need employers and the welfare state there as a backup, and because every good thing they enjoy comes from God whether they acknowledge him or not – has ruined them.
They now think they can, or at least ought to be able to, indulge their fleshly desires with no thought for physical, emotional or spiritual consequences.
(And yes, I’m aware there are exceptions. By God’s grace I seem to have found one. But excessive liberty is as bad for women as it is for men, though it presents differently.)
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I think that as we see more and more young women postponing marriage for flings with bad boys, we will see an even greater percentage of young women voting for the Democrat Party, with high taxes and more social programs that make husbands and families 1) UNNECESSARY FINANCIALLY and 2) UNAFFORDABLE FOR MEN TO HAVE A STAY AT HOME MOM. So, if the man’s plan is to have 4 children and have the mother stay home to raise them, it will become impossible. If normal men are anything like me, then this means there is no point marrying, since that’s what we hope to achieve through marriage: a peaceful home and a legacy.
I’m not sorry for the women who are destroying themselves like this, since they are the ones who made the decision to make sex cheap for bad boys, and marriage expensive for god men.
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Yep. For these women, who wants to put up with sharing her home and her body with some icky (I.e. less than star status) man, when she can achieve the same financial benefits just by joining with her peers and voting appropriately?
I find it perplexing that some commenters are saying that women write men off because those men are addicted to porn and video games. Sure, there’s a vicious circle in play. But it has to be understood that the “addiction” itself is something of a despair response. In my mid 20s, I had jumped up a rung or two on the career ladder and was about to buy real estate. I was, in a word, doing all those things that men do who want to signal provider status. Ha! And I would walk to work from my car park, and ask myself what the point of it all was?
Never underestimate the ability of men to respond to incentives or the lack thereof.
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I’m asking myself what the point of all of this “signaling provider status” was, but that’s why we have early retirement, which is fine.
I know the person who left the video game comment. So I sent her a screenshot of my Fidelity account and told her that this was in addition to the house I just bought for cash. Clearly, video games hasn’t stopped me from succeeding professionally and financially.
Men play video games for the simple reason that they are rewarded and praised for being heroic. In real life, women are rewarding men these days for being selfish and irresponsible bad boys. It’s no wonder at all that video games are so popular. There was a time when women did prefer good character and heroic behavior in men, but that time has (it seems to me) passed. Now they like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, because abortion and free condoms or something.
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It must be said that devoting one’s free time to video games (or any other combination of solitary and masculine activities) does limit one’s opportunities to meet young women. While it’s good to not make finding a spouse the #1 life goal, a young man shouldn’t think a good woman is just going to fall into his lap one day either.
And we can, as men, be courageous, decisive and refuse to make pleasing women our #1 priority. Thus, we honour God while also making ourselves more attractive.
But as for women who insist on squandering their youth with bad boys, they have made their beds. Now let them lie in them. Forgiveness is always available for the one who repents and puts her trust in Christ, but divine forgiveness doesn’t remove all consequences in this life.
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A contraceptive mentality leads women to engage in premarital sex since she now believes it is very low risk or even without risk at all. In the past, a prospective slut knew she might get pregnant and be stuck raising a child without a man to support her, and that gave her a lot of incentive to save sex for marriage and look for a husband. But if she can have sex without such serious consequences, thanks to contraception, she now has very little reason to be chaste or to marry until she finally decides that she wants a child.
There are many bad effects from a contraceptive mentality – the idea that children are burdens to be avoided, that sex has no link to procreation, and that our fertility is and should be completely under our control. One of the main ones is the encouragement of promiscuity, especially among women.
https://lindsays-logic.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-effects-of-contraceptive-mentality.html
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Interesting comments. Two of my sons have been married in the last year, and we absolutely love their spouses. I would suggest that any man looking for a Christian spouse spend as much time as possible volunteering in Christian based organizations. This is where you will find women who have hearts for Jesus, and place greater value on family and relationships than material things. Of course, physical attraction plays a role, but we all get old and ugly, so this is a superficial way of deciding on a spouse. I have been on a number of missions trips over the years, and am amazed at the wonderful young women that also participate. You don’g give up precious vacation time and spend it doing dirty, often menial work unless you are less self centered than the secular world – as a general statement.
Also, there is no perfect spouse, so don’t think you are “settling” if a potential spouse is lacking in a particular area. Simply decide on your order of priorities – hopefully a God centered person being first – and go from there. When I met my wife, she only had a high school education, but that was not a priority. She had common sense, and a deep faith. People to have deep intellectual discussions with are a dime a dozen, so don’t get too caught up in degrees. Some of the smartest people I know have had a very limited education. Money is irrelevant as we who follow God’s word know that He will provide.
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Thanks for your perspective. You’ve done well with your marriage because you married young. Thats what I wanted as well. Too bad I couldn’t find anyone to pair up with.
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Try not to become too embittered by this.
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The issue is not my feelings, it’s how best to make use of my assets and talents. I have to do the right thing for the Kingdo. I’m just explaining to women as a warning that early marriage to a marriage-minded man is best. They ought to want to get started on their marriage as early as possible so that they can see the investment they make in their husbands and families produce maximal results. Just like investments, marriage work best when you start on it early and make frequent deposits. Waiting until the last minute loses all the advantages of the union.
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I’m tempted to put on my engineer hat (i.e., “Mr. Fix-It”).
If we study church history, in periods (and thus also in areas) where Christianity is the majority and/or normative, you’ll find a lot of nominalism. In periods (and in areas) where Christianity is persecuted, you’ll find much fewer Christians — but arguably more articulate and more devout Christians.
(Most of my really godly Christian male friends, who wanted to be married, married later in life, like 30-42. They tended to be overlooked by the average church-going woman. I really do think that carnal Christian women tend to defer to their evolutionary biology i.e., tall, powerful/wealthy men of the same race who are very socially adept, etc.)
I’ve read a lot of blogs where even non-Americans point out that Christian women are pining for their Joseph / Boaz / name some intriguing biblical male figure / etc. -like masculine figure to waltz into their lives, but fail to look for the very things (character, expressing itself by actions) that define Joseph, Boaz, Daniel, Moses.
Joseph refused to commit adultery with the wife of his boss, Potiphar, and went to jail for a crime he did not commit. He spent another two whole years (Gen. 41:1) in jail until the chief cupbearer remembered that Joseph knew God well enough to be able to interpret dreams.
Boaz (kind of like the biblical Mr. Darcy — he’s rich enough to be a land-owner and had servants) actually deferred Ruth’s double-marriage proposal as there was a closer redeemer (Ruth 3:12). He did the right thing. (A closer reading will note that Boaz may have been an older man, as he refers to “younger men” that Ruth has not chased, and that Ruth was a Moabitess [Deut. 23:3 “No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation”] but her faith got her included in the lineage of David, who built the temple.)
Moses had just fled to Midian after striking down an Egyptian. (Exodus 2:11-15) (Not the best marriage-material)
And so on.
In seeking a godly, devout and wise Christian woman, this is extremely rare, but do not be discouraged. In fact, she should be rare enough that, should you see her, you should have plenty of motivation to pursue. Moreover, you don’t need many good Christian women. You just need one for a spouse.
I also think that it’s helpful to think about where you might meet such quality Christian women. Obviously you won’t run into high quality Christian women at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings (or at a pickup bar or a nightclub). Moreover, it’s a chance encounter if one runs into such a woman at a worship service or singles ministry event. Besides, you want to put your best foot forward when you do meet.
Based on my last number of years of being single (caveat: I did get married in my late 30’s and met my wife in my mid-30’s), I would say:
– seminary: although a lot of Christian women tend to be younger, like in their 20’s. Seminary is the academic arm of the church. They’re obviously academic and are Christian leaders. (Plus I was a seminarian.)
– training sessions for BIble study/small group leaders
– introductions by mature Christian friends and pastors
– (singles ministry) Welcome Dinners: it was a much smaller setting than my church’s singles ministry and this setting was very positive for me (allowed me to serve others, helping them to connect, allowed me to meet new people as well as the veterans who were serving).
– some ministry events (e.g., I did registration for an apologetics conference only after I was married for a while, but that’s helpful in terms of meeting people).
– any social event (if you get an invitation to anything, go to it, even for a short while) — including ones that friends and I organized and hosted. It is of great social value to be able to have a nice social event, with balanced number of each gender and everyone has a great time. I had a couple of single male friends with whom we hosted dinner parties and wine and cheese parties (we emphasized quality over quantity) and even invited pastors to join us.
– eHarmony (I know the odds are low: they say that about 80,000 couples of their website end up in marriage per year = 160,000 members, as compared a total membership of about 33 million, or less than 0.5% of their membership per year)
– develop friendships with solid Christian women (using one’s friendship to influence them to godliness). Besides, I received an excellent commendation — I met one Christian lady and the chemistry wasn’t quite right, but I treated her well. She later started dating her now-husband, and I met my now-wife. It turns out that these two ladies were best friends in high school and the friend had nothing but nice things to say to my wife.
(And besides, as a married man, I’m tempted to approach some of my single female friends to assist them as well as figuring out who’s in their social circle…)
Even if you meet someone who looks good on paper / by all estimates, it may not work out.
I also advocate for solid Christian men not only to work on their holiness/sanctification, but developing discernment and social skills (some alluded to above). I wonder if I should type something up on social power-balance and relationships.
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It’s not about finding one for a spouse. It’s about the legal system that all the others vote in. It’s about the view of make leadership in Christian circles. It’s about whether circumstances are likely to need help going forward. And it’s about whether any kind of real bond can be formed after all the battles were fought by me alone already.
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Not exactly certain what you are focusing on, but let me stab a few guesses:
– (#1) you don’t like that the courts in general highly favor the woman/wife in the case of divorce including visitation rights and alimony?
– (#2) you don’t like that many pastors tend to demonize Christian men, making them sound like incompetent and inane wusses, who should think with the wrong head, aren’t “manning up and marrying all these marry-able eligible saintly highly virtuous Christian women”?
– (#3) you don’t like de facto feminists or cultural feminists in the church and/or female entitlement?
So #1, when I was single and dating, I had a litmus test: I won’t marry anyone I wouldn’t fully trust. If anything raises questions (red flags, etc.) and/or I thought I needed a prenup, I wouldn’t bother with that person. I never discussed my finances, although discerning women picked up that I owned a luxury high rise condo and I did tell my then-girlfriend now-wife that I had no debt and no college (or seminary) debt — I was one of the very few minority who could pay for my own seminary classes, cash out of pocket and graduated with no loans. (It helped that I was an engineer in high tech.) The few discerning women , maybe a dozen or so, inferred a number of things — not because I told them anything about my finances, but reading in between the lines.
I didn’t want someone to be attracted to me because of my income and/or earning potential. I dressed nicely (clean, no holes, business casual) but not seemingly expensively (i.e., no shiny shirts as per James 2:2). Yes, I was very calculated in my appearance and it helped me to discern whether someone was dismissive because I didn’t appear wealthy or whatever.
I can’t really change the legal system but I can work around the system. The state in which I live actually favors the non-cheating spouse (the cheating spouse is deemed irresponsible and reckless towards the welfare of the children, etc.) Odd for being a blue state, but hey. (My senior pastor did a lot of research into legal systems around marriage, divorce, and family in addition to his Old Testament studies and exegesis for his doctoral thesis … which is why some people nicknamed him, “Dr. Marriage”.)
He has an interesting quote here regarding getting married before engaging in sexual intimacy:
“It is indisputable that sexual intercourse is reserved for marriage from the Bible’s perspective…
Finally, I would say that there are of course a zillion benefits (health, marital happiness, and otherwise) to adopting some kind of conservative understanding of sexual intimacy outside marriage… One that may not occur to couples, however, is the way this will produce an unshakable trust in the fidelity of your spouse that will stay with you throughout your marriage. If you were unable to wear down the other’s defenses and were able yourself to resist the temptation of sleeping together, in spite of your deep love for each other and your raging hormones, you can be sure that no one else will ever be able to get any further!”
tl;dr summary: “You practice self-control to develop and nurture trust for each other.”
#2. Sure, it takes two to tango — meaning men and women have to agree to have premarital sex. I have seen and heard of plenty of bad examples of Christian men (and Christian women). I’ve heard plenty of Christian women express unhappiness about an apparent double standard in terms of chastity. And sometimes I think the pendulum has swung too far.
Proverbs is written in androcentric language (and of course, the exception of the acrostic of the Proverbs 31 woman). However, we should not think that Proverbs is only written to men and especially young/younger men. Women should also avoid the seducer, the adulterer.
I certainly don’t think demonizing one sex or the other helps.
Teaching women how exactly to support and to encourage good leadership — well, that’s an excellent topic.
#3. I always avoided any woman who self-labeled “feminist” or smacked of feminism. And while I don’t believe that God espouses any political party in any particular country, there were certain women (especially progressive or SJWs or those who tended to favor certain parties without critical and Christian worldview thinking) with whom I just wouldn’t bother.
I usually saw it this way, in general about friendships: there is some give and take with friendships. I don’t mind giving 60/40 or 70/30 or being more generous at times. However, I usually asked myself the question: “Is this person a friend or a ministry?” If it’s the latter, I didn’t bother even exploring whether I wanted to date that person.
The Bible (and extrabiblical literature) is full of examples of discernment and utilizing wisdom in one’s choice as well as negative consequences for being unwise (e.g., Samson). Abraham’s unnamed servant was not haphazard in his selections. He went to the well (everyone has to get water), and he prayed for a woman who would exemplify extraordinary hospitality, servanthood, and self-sacrifice (Genesis 24:14, “Let the young woman to whom I shall say, ‘Please let down your jar that I may drink,’ and who shall say, ‘Drink, and I will water your camels’”). Earlier in the text, we know this servant had ten camels (24:10). A thirsty camel can drink up to 30 imperial gallons (source: National Geographic) or 135L for the metric/SI readers. That’s something transporting 2500-3000 pounds and would require multiple trips. I’m not sure what the modern day equivalent would be. Maybe something like … I will use the conference budget and personally shop for and prepare a banquet for our apologetics speakers and their families?
As for forming a bond, well — trust starts somewhere, and it’s best to start with a quality prospect.
And addressing the issue of value and what not — the Bible does not expect me to treat all Christian women like a marriage prospect. In fact, that would be horrendous to do so. I treat all people who self-profess to be Christians as Christians unless their choices/decisions/actions tell me otherwise, and then I go through Matthew 18:15ff. I affirm my Christian female friends as worthy of friendship and I affirm their value as daughters of God. At the same time, the Bible encourages every man to utilize discernment in selecting a wife (and every woman to utilize discernment in selecting a husband).
In a way, a person is the sum of everything that he or she brings to a marriage — and more. All of one’s experiences, education, issues, parental upbringing, Christian conversion if not raised by Christian parents, one’s Christian walk, good choices and bad choices, credit scores, financial health or lackthereof, and so on.
Let’s flip it around — not even say speaking about negatives. Let’s say a single man believes he is called to be a pastor. Not every Christian woman would want to be a pastor’s wife. Maybe the woman doesn’t have the right temperament or the right disposition. Maybe she doesn’t want that ‘burden’ or the publicity. If we say, “Well, if that’s not her cup of tea,” then why is it any different for a man to be discerning about a woman?
Moreover, I was alluding to this a bit earlier: there is a social power-balance: men who are more socially adept, who are more well-heeled, who are more connected, who have more power, who are further along in their career — have more options. Add to that, there’s (generally) more women than men in the church. Single Christian men in the church, who are marriage-minded, even in the 20’s and especially older actually have the balance of power on their side.
In this analysis, marriage is about a man sharing his power with a woman (and also vice-versa). Men who are more powerful can be more discerning / selective with whom to share their power — in fact, they should be more discerning with whom to share their power.
I’ll be a bit more blunt. Single men have a lot more power before they get married than after. (I’m not saying that single men should avoid getting married.) Therefore, single men should find a woman worthy of dying for, worthy of laying down that power or worthy of sharing power.
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Excellent comment…I’d agree that intercourse should only be reserved for marriage for the important reason of living a chaste life which helps in discerning those who could be your spouse.
I myself have never had sex outside of marriage so I never understood why I could see the red flags in women a lot more clearly than other men who decided not to. Then I’ve read things about having premarital sex puts the couple into something like a ‘fog’…which is what is meant to happen for a married couple who should have a good idea about who each other is about but really cheapens the relationship if you don’t know the person well.
I’ll put it this way…by keeping sex out and the physical down, you get to know the woman better and by extention you can get the truth about how they really feel for you out of them quicker. While it has hurt me when I hear the truth…I’d rather hear it before getting married than after. I’ve read too many stories where premarital sex causes emotional confusion in a woman or she stuffs it down that there are many cases she ends up marrying a guy she has no feelings for. That’s a death knell in my opinion.
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If women really do think a man should take into account her ‘intrinisic value’…then they should be practicing chastity outside of marriage too. A man can’t really discern that well if she’s putting that fog over him and every man she meets.
And that’s why we need to point out their disconnect more especially in the pursuit of the bad boy sexual arena. Sure they are aware of the ideal men should have, but they practice things that take men away from that ideal.
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I’m just amazed at how much wisdom there is in you guys about how a man should think about marriage! Most people don’t know that chastity is to help you make a stone cold sober assessment of wife candidates so you don’t get into trouble. Everybody thinks that chastity is about mere abstinence but it lets you take into account the full value if the woman without being blinded by appearance alone.
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Thank you for this excellent comment which I think presents many of the decision factors that are neglected by many who don’t understand what men are thinking when they think about marriage.
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I’m younger but on the same trajectory and will probably look more and more at ex-pat life. Rural Japanese girls raised in a Buddhist home make more virtuous and moral wives then what the modern Church in the West turns out. Girls barely know what and why their believe anything anyways; it would be easier to go from mindful non-Christian to Christian then cultural feminist to housewife.
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I don’t mean to rain on your parade, but as someone who speaks Japanese, has lived in Japan, and has many Japanese female friends–this isn’t true. Japan isn’t a religious at all and don’t have any qualms about pre-marital sex. Actually, most of my Japanese female friends don’t understand why I want to wait until marriage. Also, the average Japanese person typically claims Buddhism and Shintoism, but most are really just non-religious. Not to mention, when it comes to marriage in Japan, for the most part fidelity isn’t real. Adultery is common place. A lot of people look at Japan with rose tinted glasses. It’s an awesome country, but they are far from God.
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They have a terrible birth rate, too!
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>But when the woman shows up at 35, what is the value proposition to to the man?
I would go further than WK. I did not need any woman to become successful in my career — all I needed were the skills and abilities God gave me, the fantastic opportunities God gave me, and my own willingness to work hard. No woman needed. And I earned six figures most of the last 20 years.
So I disagree with (part of) the value that WK assigns a woman.
The value I see, is in her youth, beauty, fertility and chastity. And a woman of 35 obviously has squandered at least the first 3 of those. No, a woman of 35 is of little value to me as a potential spouse.
I strove to invest my 20s in my marriage. I did that by training myself, working, and saving. (The fact my marriage never occurred does not negate the investment I choose, through actions, to make.)
The investment a wise woman will make in her 20s is to give her best years to her husband. Many people think it reasonable to ask the wise, diligent man, who invested his 20s wisely, to marry the woman who squandered her best years. But, as a man who can think and reason, who can weigh cost and benefit, who can weight risk and reward, I have to say that few 35 year old women are worth the cost and risk. She should have entered marriage when she still had something of value, her youth and prime fertility, to offer.
@Amy Hall
I notice you do not include the wife actually doing anything. No mention of her being created to be her man’s helpmeet (Genesis 2), no mention of fulfilling his sexual desires (1 Cor 7:1-9). You do mention the popular idea that a woman can train her husband into greater holiness–although passages like 1 Tim 2 and Numbers 30 say the opposite about a woman being more holy/wise than a man.
@Ani
> I know plenty of young women who are interested in marriage for gospel reasons and ready to do the hard work involved
Really? That would be great. Let’s do an objective assessment before I get too excited however. You say you and these other young women are ready to do the hard work. How about the following:
– Deut 22:5 – you do not wear men’s clothing. So you are careful, at least in church service, to always wear dresses/skirts, or whatever your culture says is women’s clothing.
– Deut 22 – you have remained a virgin
– 1 Cor 11:1-16 – you do not cut or shave your hair. Doing so is not only rebellion, but deliberately would remove what the Bible says is your glory (14-16), and you obviously would not want to deprive your husband-to-be of your glory, right? So you either have waist-length hair, or your hair is as long as it can get (it keeps breaking off, but you never cut it); right?
– 1 Cor 11: you wear a head-covering during church service / praying / prophesying
– Titus 2:3-5: You are self-controlled (not addicted to food/tobacco/drugs/spending), willing to be busy at home (not a career woman) and accept you are to submit to your husband (not he to you or your feelings/desires)
If the answers to all the above are true, then you are in the top 1% of “Christian” women. If you are also below the age of 25, you will have no trouble attraction attention from Christian men.
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I’d agree with all of those and add her attitude. Like you said most of those will go away with time…but the disposition of her heart is there regardless of age.
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My whole point in this is that if she shows up EARLY when the man is facing challenges like education, early career, finances, “everyone is doing it” sexual culture, then she can help him to achieve a lot more than he can on his own. Men do better in every way when supported by a woman, and the EARLY investment sets him up for later success in life. His health is better, his resume is better, his finances are better, he is more resilient to the fact that other unworthy men are being given sex for no good reason. Fighting through all of that while remaining chaste IS POSSIBLE. I’ve done it. I could have achieved a lot more with that EARLY investment.
But that requires parents and churches to produce women who are decisive and decisive early on. They must have early resistance to what the culture tells them about feminism, men and marriage. If the woman is just starting to read C.S. Lewis (which is mostly fluff) at age 35, after a long history of debt, drunkenness, promiscuity and bulimia, that’s no good for a wealthy, chaste Christian man who made the right decisions from the beginning. Although it’s fun for pastors to think that the problem is that men need to man up, that’s not the problem. The problem is that pastors are too cowardly to tell women no to their irrational, impractical desires.
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I’d agree I’d probably would have got farther with a supportive wife…but I also appreciate how far God has got me to this point.
I really don’t know how to answer the question on how to convince a woman who is pretty set in wanting to ‘find herself’, ‘doing her own thing’, ‘enjoying being single’, ‘focusing on her career’…that getting married would be benefical for her too. I’m not her father and I’m not her priest. Plus the women who want to get married and understand what it is about I’ve found are few and far between.
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I see very little understanding of what marriage is about, and what men and women do in a marriage. While men devour books and studies on marriage and parenting, women read fiction and devotionals. I’ve never seen such a level of ignorance about something that they claim to want to do “some day” (when they feel like it). With zero preparation. If a man intends for his marriage to achieve anything, he can’t pair up with someone who has no idea what marriage is about.
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Dale,
I don’t own a pair of trousers or jeans. My hair is almost waist length, and I always have my head covered in church. At home I cook bake clean grow my own veg etc. My self control has enabled me to own my own house, car, have savings and a plan for retiral at 48. I don’t smoke drink or take drugs. I despise feminism with every ounce of my being.
I must drop out of the top 1% though because I have a career.
I have a career because I never married.
My self esteem isn’t linked to what men think of me, so I have no issue with yours and WK’s statement that I would have little marriage value at my age. I agree. Unless someone wanted me to look after them in their old age and had no desire for a family, there’s little point in marrying me. It doesn’t negate my value as a person, it’s just reality. Thankfully, God gave me enough brains to have the skills and abilities to earn a lot of money and provide for my single life.
P.S., I’m WK’s best friend and he adores me despite being an old spinster 🙂
P.P.S., No woman’s hair is going to be her glory if she never cuts it and it’s so long it’s breaking off.
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This is all true, except I think she is even more wonderful than she says!
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” I despise feminism with every ounce of my being.” Well you have benefited from feminism otherwise you wouldn’t have a career. Most of society believes in gender equality which is feminism although people claim they are not feminists.
I knew a woman that was 22 and just finished university and ended with a great new job. She wanted to get married but her boyfriend didn’t so they broke up and she started dating a guy in his 30’s. She told me she wanted a family and it was strange that she wanted it quite bad. I guess she realized time was running out for her. She was a very kind feminine women.
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There is a distinction between equality of opportunity feminism, and radical feminism. Equality of opportunity feminism says that women should have equal rights and responsibilities. Responsible people believe in that. Radical feminism asserts the identity of the two sexes, i.e. – that the differences between men and women are social constructs, and that differences between the numbers of men and women in any particular field are due to discrimination. Dina and I oppose that radical feminism. I hope that clears it up.
In the literature, these are also known as “first wave feminism” and “third wave feminism”. Or “equity feminism” and “gender feminism”.
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The Proverbs 31 is a good model for how God knows how a woman can be, so He is the first “feminist.” The world’s feminism rejects God’s plan for one that is inconsistent with God’s best. Men reject God’s view as well. A woman can be a mother, a spouse, and God’s best. So, the “career” woman rejected God’s view as did the man who rejected her. In the Word is the best.
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Women had jobs before feminism became popular -even office jobs. Sure, there was some sexual harassment and still is, but more men in the old days respected women than now. Pornography did a lot to erode women’s value, especially in the 70s. What we are living in now is just a side effect of what happens when people stray from their christian roots. Living in a christian society isn’t easy and there’s always a fight with the devil, so most people would rather be unhappy than face strife and hardship.
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Amen. We all are failing God’s design in the modern world. The fruit is not good.
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Well with so many women sleeping around with different men all the time which they will never be able to commit to only one man anyway. And many women like to party with their girlfriends and get wasted most of the time unfortunately. Not marriage material at all. And many of us men can be very happy with just only one woman. The very difficult part is meeting one good one though.
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You aren’t looking at the long term. Our society has fewer and fewer children. Demographics are the future. It is as if the press, and culture, decided to destroy Western civ. My first wife decided to “trade up”. I got custody of our young daughter. I raised her till she was 17, and she has thanked me. Her mother is crazy enough that her own daughters, by her next marriage, don’t want much to do with her. She lives in a homeless shelter now-by choice, and is very paranoid. A friend of mind showed me the Hot/Crazy evaluation of women. Men would like a hot woman, so that goes from 1-10. The crazy scale goes from 4-10, because women under 4 on that scale basically don’t exist. When my father got married, divorce was under 5% of marriages. I talk to young men. I ask them if they’d like to play a lottery, where they have a better than 50% chance of losing half their assets, and half their income over they next 26 years. They look at me like I’m crazy. I say, “Just get married”. They break up laughing. I did not have sex before I got married. My wife did. She also had a problem with alcohol. Pain is such a patient teacher. I’m remarried, to a Latin woman who grew up in a traditional family. Sex and the City does a major disservice to women- they think they can play sexually till they are 45, and then find a rich guy. Getting involved with a feminist is as smart as getting involved with a poisonous snake; she may be beautiful, but she is deadly, and will bite, in time. I was raised in the church. A married woman came on to me, in church, some years ago. I walked away from that. My brother and I have each had the opportunity to play with married women, and we just walk away from it. It’s not just the danger of being killed, it’s that it is IMMORAL. My wife has a best friend, who reads feminist websites that talk about taking lovers. She finds illegal immigrants, for this. She doesn’t really know how to hold down a job, she lives off her parents, at 38. She’d like to get married, but no self-supporting man will put up with her. One of her boyfriends “married” a Filipina, so she could get a green card. Now, see, many third world folks are quite smart. She had a guy with a regular job, didn’t drink, treated her well, and so on. It can be so frustrating to find a good partner. So she told him she was on the pill, and offered him some. He took her up on it. She got pregnant, it seems she “forgot” to take the pill. But she was very pleasant, you know, cooked, didn’t get bitchy, acted, really, like an ideal wife. Men tend to stay in their habits. She had the child. She took care of business, gave him what he needed, and so on. He is very happy now, because, well, he has no idea what he would get if he started looking. The Filipina was smart, very smart, and did not exploit her advantage. When I was in high school, I got nowhere with the lasses. OK, I studied. Now women come on to me, yes, even when I’m married. I let them down slowly and politely. Then there are the women with children, by bad boys, who think a man wants to spend $500,000 raising the children of a bad boy. Yeah, right. My brother was dumped by a very nice woman, who told him he was “too nice”, she wanted a bad boy. Brooke Medicine Eagle said a native elder told her that women determine exactly how men treat women- by whom they choose to sleep with.
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Women need to think of their sexual attractiveness as being like gasoline, in a tank. You can use the gas to get where you want to go, OR, you can take trips to the mall, or just drive around, or… the gas is finite. My brother and I told our nephew to always wear the raincoat, he had women throwing themselves at him from high school on, in a way we never saw. Heck, the lasses call the lads, now. The Quran says that women have 9 times the sexual desire of men. I believe it. I have been in seminars, where women in their 40’s and 50’s talk about finding their “soulmate”, the perfect man. Problem is, their standards are so high, it’s like searching for the Holy Grail. Then there is the little problem that they have like 80 extra pounds on, but that’s ok, because their soulmate will just “love them as they are”. I don’t say anything to them, they wouldn’t listen. I was in a hotel restaurant, after a training for work. I heard this woman talking- that is how one learns, by listening. She was telling all her girlfriends how hard it was to find a man, and then to keep him after the first date, how cruel men were, and so on, and the women were all mirroring her. After 30 minutes of education, for me, she finished. I chanced a look at her. She had a hairstyle my 90 year old gramma would have been ashamed of, plus an extra 100 pounds on. I suspect she also had issues with alcohol. But women never look to their own plant, as a source of problems. I remember the Summa Cum Laude graduate of my high school. She is a doctor now. And twice divorced, and clearly not married now. Hmmm. I wonder why, given how critical and bossy she was, even in high school. My father’s brother, Chuck, got married in 1939. They celebrated their 70th anniversary in church. They were committed Christians their entire lives. They had a fantastic relationship, they respected each other, they had great kids, they had it all. He could drive, safely, right up to the stroke, from which he died a few days later. I met a woman, not long ago, near a store I shop at. I am a disabled veteran. My wife was in the hospital, so I had our child with me. She offered to help me load my purchases in the car, she seemed fine, she had her lesbian fiancee with her. OK. Then she offered to help me unload, where I live. I demurred. Oh, she had a fantastic body, but, you know, I had no idea if she had weapons and intended to rob me, or what. Traps must be baited well, to work. Men who deal with American women are walking in a minefield. And many know it. And church attendance is no guarantee of anything.
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Porn is extremely unrealistic. Porn for women is also called “Romance Novels”. I read a couple, for my education, though it was hard to read. The basic plot is a man who spends all his attention on a woman, who is a rich bad boy. Years ago, I worked as a security guard. Back then, one could still post Playboy centerfolds. A new guy I was training was salivating over one such. I explained to him that the picture was about 90% paint- then it was airbrushing, now it’s Photoshop, and that no woman ever looked like that, at any time in history. He got it, the dawning of awareness on his face was truly beautiful. Women don’t understand that Sex and the City is also romance novel porn. They get those pictures in their minds, and live their lives from lies. I love hearing women say “well men should just…” Yeah. Right. What isn’t happening now, most likely didn’t happen in the past, is very unlikely to happen in the future. It’s always men’s fault. My boss has a buddy, about 50. His wife divorced him, so he’s paying half his income for child support, and he does spend time with his kids. He can’t get married- his new wife’s income would be counted for alimony- and divorce doesn’t end it. So he plays on Tinder, and has 5 women on the side, at any given time. Why not? Above the age of 35 or so, there are more and more women looking. I saw a guy in the military, who maintained 3 girlfriends, that didn’t know about the others. When one left, he replaced her right away. Why not? And a guy I know near where I work told me about his brother, 42. He went to the hospital. The woman he was living with showed up, introduced herself to the family, and left. Another woman showed up, introduced herself as the girlfriend, and left. Another… woman showed up, introduced herself as the girlfriend, and left. Another…. he was running 7 women. Count them, 7. They ran in age from 25 to 60, and he said the 60 year old looked better than the 40 year old woman. Huh? What? But why not? And every man who puts up with a bitch wife who spends way too much money, tells him he has two hands and to take care of what he needs himself, won’t cook… looks at that… and tells younger men a few things. My second wife turned out to be an alcoholic. The housework that got done was done by me, because she was too lazy. She decided sex wasn’t important. What’s wrong with this picture? I came back from a training for work, and she’d spent that time with a boyfriend. Hey, no problem. She has clear goals, and I found out before any kids came along. I got her out of my life. Oh, was she upset, it was like she’d won the lottery, and then didn’t. Her lawyer demanded half my assets. Uh, whoops, only married 2 years, no real estate owned, no children… sorry. They dropped this to $100,000. Then to $50,000. I played the same game lawyers do-I played for time. They eventually dropped it to $1,000, and I bit, though I should have waited. Oh was she angry, her animated wallet left her. For most American women, husbands are an ATM, an early retirement plan, a handyman around the house, and a guy to sleep around on, when she feels like it. Vampires are kinder, they only take blood. I have a neighbor whose wife spent 8 years in divorce court, bankrupting him. His sons won’t have any contact with their mother, who beat them with belt buckles, and other such things. She’s a sociopath. He won’t ever get married again, though women can’t understand why. I always wanted to be married to a good woman, and I am, now. If she goes, I will never get married again. I talk to young men, about all this, they can’t believe that half their after tax income goes to child support, that they will lose the house, they their lives will be destroyed, in divorce- and that women initiate 70% of divorces. I use a protocol I learned in the military, to be invisible to most women. The worst of the lot are feminists that married third world men, for some reason, after hating American men. Then they discover that third world men are polygamous, but only after having a child, or two, or three. When I see a woman with mixed race children, I know to stay at least 30 feet away from her, and have absolutely nothing to do with her, ever, for any reason. These women are so full of poisonous hate I don’t even want the ambient field influence. Heck, a feminist openly hit on me- in the presence of my pregnant wife, some years ago. I couldn’t believe it, but my wife confirmed it. She left immediately when she realized she wasn’t getting anywhere. I had met her in a martial arts presentation, but she and her feminist friends were like totally toxic- yet they still wanted relationships with men. Thanks for that lesson, Ann, I appreciate it, greatly. I felt like a black man at a Triple K convention, or a Jew around Nazis, with her. I prefer my daily walk with Jesus, it’s a lot nicer. I like to sing hymns, to myself. I help people at work, as much as I can, because that is what Jesus would want me to do. I become the light in people’s lives. Many years ago, now, I knew a woman, at a hospital I worked at, in Indiana, on the night shift. I was extremely depressed, people were nasty, long story. Anyway, she was kind to me, at a time when I greatly needed that. She was deeply religious, I never saw her outside of work. There was nothing between us, and never would be, I knew that, but she was kind, in the way that the Bishop was, to Jean ValJean, and she changed my life, as surely as the Bishop changed Jean’s. I realized I was depressed because I was holed up inside. She modeled the way of Christ, to me. I haven’t spoken to her in decades, I’ve no idea where she is, now. I have passed on her kindnesses to me, at every opportunity, and continue to do so. Her kindness got me through becoming a single parent, and raising my child, and dealing with a lot of pain, in life. I wish I could thank her. But all I can do is “pay it forward”. Women don’t understand that they are selling a wasting asset- like bread. Fresh bread is magnificent. As it sits, it becomes less magnificent, it becomes “pan duro”, hard bread, in time only useful for soup. My uncle saw his wife as the beautiful woman he’d married, and you know, at 80, she really was beautiful, full of light, just magnificent. My father showed love to my mother, even in the nursing home, as he got ready to move on to the next world. None of those women thought they’d find a romance novel husband; both worked very hard at their marriages. Read the 1960’s era World Book encyclopedia article on motherhood, it runs for pages. You’ll think it came from an alien planet. Young men are stupid. Women think they stay stupid, but they acquire wisdom, through pain, if they aren’t reading their Bible. The number of women who want to marry a rich guy- hypergamy- is staggering. Hey, a guy that rich turns away more women than he goes with, why bother getting the cow, when the milk comes free, and sometimes they even pay you to take the milk? What is the path of love… sometimes it is simply telling the truth.
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In Tai Chi, the form is “empty”, until it is filled, by a human being practicing it. So it is, with the Bible. Tai Chi has specific rewards; do it faithfully, and the rewards come. This is not necessarily true, with marriage. Marriage needs to be seen as a business arrangement, with benefits. I have a strong intuitive sense, which was developed with pain. If I don’t feel good about a woman, I won’t even talk to her. Oh, I’ll be polite, but I evade her. Years ago, I went out with a woman, who was nice enough, but over time, it developed that she was a feminist, but of course she wasn’t “that kind” of militant, man-hating feminist. I had custody of my kid, so I took my kid with me, when we went out, often. She needed to know I had a child, who was important to me. So, one day, she dumps me. Hey, ok, thanks for the feedback, I love accurate feedback. No problem. If I contact her again, of course, it’s stalking, so I never called or anything. So, six months later, she wants to get back together. I said no. No. Left me once, you’ll leave again. Years ago, I knew a Vietnam vet, who came back from his Infantry job, the worst there was, to marry his high school sweetheart. After 6 weeks, she got up and said she wasn’t happy. He asked who was. She divorced him, at 3 months. He was torn apart, but his dad kept him on track, told him to give her half the equity in the house- it wasn’t much. No kids, fortunately. She went on to marry another guy. She had a kid with him. Didn’t like him, divorced him. Married a third guy, had another kid. Didn’t like him, divorced him. Decided that ex number 1 was the best of the lot. Well, X-1 wasn’t about to pay the six figures it costs, per child, to raise somebody else’s kids, and she was really hurt, couldn’t understand that. Also, X-1 had discovered what were called ADC women, then. They made no effort to discover paternity, for women on Welfare. So he’d keep a couple of beautiful ones on the line. Every now and then, one would issue an ultimatum about getting married, so he’d drop her, and replace her. Why not? He said about the age of 35, they’d realize they could get a man for a weekend, but no longer, and get really bitter, but they were easily replaced. He was getting all he needed; when I met him, he was getting a college degree, working his way through. He owned his house. Women do not understand that then they poison the field, so to speak, or teach a man how much power they have to destroy him, that he learns from this experience. Women do not understand that they not only hurt the man, but they also hurt every single woman that man will meet, for the rest of his life. The Buddhists talk about this as the chain of violence, which is passed from person to person, until someone ends it by not passing on the violence. But most people are not that spiritual. Men really do pay attention. When they see a man who is blissfully happy, in his marriage, to a wonderful, supportive woman, they mark that down, in their mental notebook. When they see a man who is paying half his income out to a sadistic harpy, who isn’t allowed to see his kids, much less help them, who is growing more bitter by the day, and his ex likes to yank his chain by falsely accusing him of something, well, they mark that down, in their notebook, too. I have seen just 5 really happy, Christian marriages, in my life, and I have attended church for much of my life. That is enough for me to have hope. I have seen several hundred of the other kind. Who created this? Mostly women. There is a very easy way to solve the problem of deadbeat dads, one that Tom Leykis points out. Women can simply stop having sex with deadbeats, with “bad boys”. Problem solved- overnight. As Tom Leykis points out, however, women will stay for years with an abusive boyfriend, but have no interest whatsoever in a good provider, who shows up to work, and keeps up with his responsibilities. I know a Mohawk Indian, who was married, with 4 kids, for 20 years. He’s a simple guy, and his eyes were like looking into eternity, because he is deeply spiritual. I met him at a powwow, and let him talk, for 3 hours, because he had so much pain to let out. Seems his wife ran off with a guy, clearly a “bad boy”. Left a note for her kids, saying she wasn’t coming back. Well, this guy did what he had to, the divorce, and so on, put the house in the names of his kids. Healed. She came back 2 years later. Bad boy had dumped her. She expected to just go back home. My native american friend just said no. No, he couldn’t trust her. He had title to the house, he had his income, why risk all that, for a woman who clearly can’t be trusted? He wouldn’t even let her stay the night, because that has legal consequences. Oh, she cried. Too bad. By way, do not EVER let a woman spend the night with you, in a home you own, unless you have so much trust you would let her have signature authority on every asset you own. Don’t believe me, talk to an attorney. American women do not seem to have any idea that decisions have consequences. I am married. I don’t play around on my wife. I just don’t. Why? Because I gave my word I wouldn’t. Yes, I’ve had opportunities- temptations, as some might say- and I just walked away from them. There are so many desperate women above 30. And the best way to deal with them, is to be invisible to them. If you want to hear what feminism has turned men into, you might listen to Tom Leykis’ radio show, on youtube. I see many men who have become what he talks about, and most have no idea who he is. I can’t listen to it much, but it is the precise materialistic blowback for feminist ideas. He coined the meme “Dump that Bitch”, for example. He recommends becoming the bad boy- and acting like a bad boy- because that is what American women will sleep with. I could talk about, oh, the negative archetype Christians talk about, but I won’t. Why? Because people- women- openly made the choices to live their lives as they are. They created it for themselves. I know guys that, if they see copies of Cosmopolitan in a woman’s apartment, cut her off after the second date or so. A Cosmo woman is a woman who sleeps around till she is 40, and then expects a rich man to support her, as he gets very little action. Now that is a product any rich man would buy, isn’t it… Heck, I have a neighbor, a woman, whose husband was dying of ALS. She had boyfriends in the house, where he could hear what was going on. What is this? Useful intel. I am as polite as I can be, to people, generally. I do pay attention. There is another woman 2 houses down. She has 2 children, by different fathers she wasn’t married to. She has a cohabiting bad boy, now. She’s 25 or so, and may I say, gorgeous, though I’ll never have anything to do with her. She doesn’t understand the concept of the wall, that women hit about the age of 35 or so, when men acquire wisdom, and get a lot more discriminating. I won’t ever tell her this; they just aren’t open to awareness. Will Rogers said that some people learn from books [Bible means “book”], but not many. Some people learn from the mistakes of others- but not many. The vast majority of people have to learn by urinating on the electric fence for themselves. Decisions have consequences. And pain is by far the most patient teacher in life. By way, there are cases of sperm donors, to sperm banks, who got sued for child support… really think about that. I don’t like much of what Tom Leykis says, but you know, I totally understand why he gets the audience he does. My brother and I trained ourselves to be “nice guys”. If only we’d known that bad boys get all the action… because that is what women will sleep with.
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My brother married a woman, with two children. Usually this is a bad idea, but he is big-hearted. She was twice divorced. She was great, for about two years, but she had a problem: she wasted money. SHe put him $50,000 in debt. So they got divorced. She went back to no. 1. She gave up on him, and came back to my brother, who re-married her. She left after a year, went back to husband no. 2. Second divorce. She was getting ready to marry husband number 2- where does she find men that stupid- and called my brother to say he was the nicest guy she’d known, would he get back with her? This as she’s getting ready to get remarried. My brother just said no. Did I mention that they met in church, that my brother has always enthusiastically attended church, sings well in the choir… that my brother has a big heart, and loves helping people… My brother declared bankruptcy. Women don’t realize that a woman who has had over 1000 lovers is not very attractive to a man- that man knows that he cannot top what her best lover did, or her second best lover, and simply cannot turn her on, the way a bad boy can, and that bad boys are always available to her. Plus, she has certain habits, that are not useful in a committed relationship, like sleeping with 3 guys on a weekend. Or more. or all at once. I read Tucker Max’ books, carefully. I doubt he is exaggerating, I knew guys like that, in college. I couldn’t believe it when I heard Tucker got married, but he did. My father told me the only reason to ever get married was to have a stable environment to raise children in- this, from a guy who was an ordained minister. But he was wise. And correct. I know a guy, whose wife left him. He got custody, because his wife didn’t treat them well. Four children. One is Fetal Alcohol syndrome. he goes to singles groups, and tells the women openly he is only interested in sex. he never goes without. He has women coming to him. He will not let them stay overnight- he says he can’t have his children seeing that. Ask any young man, if he has ever heard an older guy telling him how truly happy he is, in his marriage, that his wife is just always a joy to be around, the whoopee is fantastic, the she does so much for him that he has to do a lot for her, and still can’t keep up? Here’s a clue- he hasn’t. What he has heard is men who note that they are in lockdown; wife doesn’t give him any, he stays with her for the kids, he knows his neck is in a guillotine of divorce court at any time, that his wife doesn’t respect him. Or he hears truly bitter men, who have been slaughtered, and hung up to bleed out, in divorce court. I know a woman, that I knew 30 years ago. She was quite overweight, married to a minister. I saw her a year ago. She has lost all that excess weight, has a magical smile, and looks fantastic. I don’t play around, of course, but if she and I were single… she is deeply religious- in a good way, a heart-centered way. The major transition to becoming an adult is a sense of self that extends beyond the skin, into the community, which leads to service to that community. Americans aren’t doing that much, any more. A happy marriage means you give more than you get- because you never see all the other person does. It means accepting shortcomings, and loving anyway. It means spending concentration on the spiritual, more than the material, parts of life. Any fool can own a Bible. It is the people who APPLY it, who make the difference. Commitment means commitment- over time. It means realizing the Disney princesses are fantasies, that the princes are fantasies, and putting attention on the daily round, and putting light into a spouse’s life, even when you’re bone tired, and need rest. It means getting up at 2 AM for an autistic child, staying up for 2 hours, to get them to sleep, going back to sleep, and waking up at 4:45 to go to work, as I’ve done. I see women, with fingernail polish on. You know, the red shades often have lead in them. Fingernail polish is a lead based paint, and other toxin, delivery system. WOmen swallow about half the lipstick they put on- what does that do to the liver. Most cosmetics are toxic- they test them by putting them in the eyes of hundreds of rabbits. I wish you could hear the sound of hundreds of rabbits screaming in pain, to test that stuff. High heeled shoes mean major knee and back problems, for women, when they hit 50. Anything you put on your body is absorbed into the bloodstream. Aluminum based deodorant… aluminum is the frequency of sadness, by way. You know, Mennonite women are looking better and better, of late, to me, well ok I’m married, but if I wasn’t, I’d be going to one of their churches. They don’t watch TV. Would you pay a contractor to dump a load of garbage in your living room, every day? WOuld you? And isn’t that exactly what TV is? Your eyes eat images, the way your mouth eats food, and you become what you eat. They work hard, they have healthy communities, and they are healthy because they eat healthy diets. Their women don’t despise and hate men. I used to know a woman, with 4 kids, who divorced a crackhead drunk, which is a night mare. OK. She thought I was interested in her. I wasn’t. But, anyway, she had two boyfriends, that she figured one would pan out as a husband. She had to have run with the cheerleader crowd, in high school. At a town occasion, she introduced one of these guys to me; it was high school all over again, the head cheerleader introduces the captain of the football team, as a polite way to say he’d beat me up if I didn’t cut off all attention. No problema, I sent a polite letter noting all the computer courses I was taking, after work, and that I’d probably not see her at all, though I wished her well. I knew her from church, and her daughter and mine would play together. I was single then. So, I later hear that neither boyfriend panned out. So she came on to me, now all polite. Heh. No, I just played the “nerd”, and pretended I didn’t even notice her as anything beyond a fellow citizen. Plus, to be blunt, a woman would have to have many, many pluses, for me to think about raising a bad boy’s kids. Yes, she was married to a bad boy, a crackhead drunk. And I knew her in church. My father quoted an old Italian man, who said that before entering any situation, “always aska da price”, first. Men do that. The price is very, very high, for vastly inferior goods, most of the time. American women live in a dream world. In Spain, if an unmarried woman gives birth, the man can choose to not recognize the child as his, which means it gets the mother’s last name, and he never pays child support, but also has no contact with the child. The result is that women don’t play around much, and want to be with a guy for a few years, so they know they can trust him. Which leads to a stable society. Except a recent Socialist prime minister decided American laws made more sense… so now Spanish men get stuck with huge alimony, and so on… which means fewer and fewer Spanish men want to risk marriage… which means their population is actually shrinking… and men over 40 absolutely NEVER get married. Oh, they’ll keep girlfriends, but they won’t marry. Women created this mess, with feminist legislation. They created all of it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Men aren’t going to change it- nobody listens to them. If a few more women like Cassie Jaye, and Karen Straughn, maybe Suzanne Venker, decide to point out the obvious- that no fault divorce and other feminist ideas means that women who seek committed relationships won’t be able to find them- it may change. I was in the military. Military bases have the highest male to female ratio anywhere in the country. I never went to the clubs, or bars; but the guys told me there were always more women in the clubs, than men. I had a roommate, then, who would bring home a new woman from the club, every night, sometimes two. They all looked good to me. He was twice divorced, from women who played around on him. He had a vasectomy, and could have a new woman every night; I’m guessing he was 38. He told me himself he was not handsome, and he wasn’t, but it didn’t matter. A former supervisor of mine, a woman, who was so nasty the women hated her with a passion, married a bad boy, young. Had a kid with him. Divorced him; he could have gotten alimony from her, but chose not to. She had a long term boyfriend, who dumped her after 12 years. She did recently get married. Hubbie had a little problem, something about an underage girl, the newspaper article wasn’t specific. Remember Gresham’s law- bad stuff drives out the good. The bad boys are driving out the good lads- because that is what women will sleep with. I don’t know the cure. Fewer people go to church, and some of them seem, well, very needful of Biblical inspiration. Perhaps someone on this board can talk about how good it feels, when one’s first child is born, in a committed, MARRIED, relationship, or how good it feels to see that first daughter MARRIED, to a good man, a godly man who, though boring- like he shows up to work timely, and so on- takes care of business. Perhaps others can talk about beloved MARRIED relatives that have a fantastic relationship that is light years better than one-night stands for years. Perhaps others can talk about the standing wave form that comes together, in a COMMITTED marriage, that gives out more energy than is put into it, because it is at a higher order. Perhaps someone else can talk about how KEEPING ONE’S VOWS, while challenging at times, gets easier and easier with the right spouse. Perhaps someone else can quote Dr. Carl Jung- Bill W., who later founded Alcoholics Anonymous, asked Dr. Jung how he could stop drinking- and the good Doctor said he had no idea, but that GOD DENIED BECOMES ADDICTIONS. Perhaps someone else could talk about how Cosmopolitan behavior leads women to lonely single lives, where their main companions are their cats. Perhaps someone else can recall the Chinese general, so concerned about bad conditions in his country, that he traced down to province, then city, then neighborhood, then household- for as the household goes, so does the nation. Perhaps someone else can talk about prisoners who grew up, never having one person they could trust- because nobody in their environment was trustworthy. or about how their addicted parents subjected them to daily violence. Perhaps someone else can talk about how choices have consequences- not just for self, but for many others- and that men whose hearts are broken, by women they met in church, no less, heal, but with thick scar tissue, and trust far less. Perhaps someone else can talk about how the Bible only has value when it is LIVED, in daily life. I don’t know. I have seen much. I have shared some of what I have seen. God willing, it will lead others to awareness, and godly action. May it be so, in Jesus’ name.
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During the Korean War, the Chinese and NKs would reward POWs who informed on other POWs, with small rewards. There was no punishment for those informed on. Cute system, huh? It meant that POWs couldn’t trust each other, which was the goal of that system. Feminists and the news media, and feminists are a creation of the rich, just like Black Lives Matter was created by George Soros, and so on, decided to do the same thing to men and women in the US. They created a no fault divorce system, which has resulted in men and women trusting each other far, far less. Here is how I’ve heard Native American elders say it: the center of community is RESPECT. From that grows rapport, from that trust, then communication, then cooperation. Cooperation is how humans survive. It is also how marriages stay together. The CENTER of that is respect. Love is really a specialized form of respect. The mass media, starting in the 1960’s, set it up so that men and women respected each other far less- which led to projection, distrust, distorted communication, then random combat, the desire to really hurt others. Feminism started it. “A woman needs a man the way a fish needs a bicycle”. Cool. How many men do you know, that want to be a fishbicycle? I don’t. Thanks for the warning, lass! Rest assured that I shall not be the fishbicycle in your life! Goodbye and good luck! “I bathe in the tears of men”. Cool. I appreciate the advance warning on your T-shirt, lass, more than you know, and it won’t be my tears you bathe in, but rather men who will pass on your cruelty to several women. Giving is receiving, right? “Men are stupid, so throw rocks at them.” What a magnificent life you are leading, lass, you just keep right on, as all you will see are stupid men, who, by way, will have opportunities to throw rocks themselves, given the chain of violence you have created. I have to work to keep a straight face, because often these women will try to come on to men. It’s kind of like wearing a Nazi uniform to hit on Jewish chicks, there’s just something not right about it, you know? And they are totally clueless, too. There is a fantastic article in Atlantic Monthly, about settling for “Mr. Goodenough”, which I found by googling. There’s an attitude designed to make any man feel totally special. Plus, the author really wants to get married, so the child she has by artificial insemination can have a father. What’s wrong with this picture… and she notes that men provide low cost child care, help with the expenses, and can be bled for child support when the woman decides that her delicate sensibilities aren’t being properly addressed. I found this site by googling “women have trouble finding husbands”, because I need a good laugh every now and then. Why? Because WOMEN CREATED this for themselves. Men go with the flow. If bad boys are the only ones getting the action, they become bad boys. What a surprise. It’s kind of like animals going where the food is, to eat, or going where the water is, to drink. I enjoy sitting in restaurants, when women get to talking about men. Or better yet, even in church. They talk about their resentments about men, how they can flay them alive and bleed them out in divorce court [ok they don’t use precisely those words, but that’s what they mean], and use language which I do find most educational, and entertaining. The one common thing is that almost no American women I’ve ever heard talking have ANY respect for men whatsoever. They all want to really diss and dump on men. Here’s the problem. Energy flows where attention goes, and what you concentrate on, grows. “Where are all the good men?” is a fun topic to google, too, women who gave their best years, and sex, to bad boys, and then realize that a guy who like shows up to work, pays the bills, is responsible, and so on, would make the better husband… suddenly realize that they are on the search for the Holy Grail. Those men are married, or divorced and very bitter. I remember a woman in college, 35, who played all those feminist games… and then wanted to get married, and oddly enough, couldn’t find a guy. Do a google search on what children of single parents go through; they are vastly overrepresented in suicides, prisons, failure to succeed in life.
When the truth of the heart is cold and dead
then are codes of morality bred – Tao Te Ching
Listen to successful women speak. The majority of them will cite their fathers as most influential in their lives- just as successful men often cite their mothers. Women who grew up without fathers engage in far more premarital sex, and are generally unhappier. OK, maybe dad was a drunk, but that doesn’t change the effects of lack of fathering. Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s report in 1963, on the “Negro family”, as they called it then, expressed concern about the black family breakup rate- which was far higher than the white family rate. The white family breakup rate now is higher than the black family rate of breakup was then. Children of “broken homes” do not do nearly as well in life. Women will always cite the exceptions- “well my mother ….” That’s great. The race does not always go to the swift horse, but that is the horse to bet on. One white crow proves that not all crows are black, but the fact is that the vast majority of crows are still black, just as the vast majority of products of single parent families do worse in life. If you want to see the godless feminist paradise, go to the inner city areas where welfare mothers live. Do it when the kids are in school, as you will be marginally safer then. As the family goes, so goes the nation. The path our nation is on, now, is the race from happiness, and godliness, to pained anguish, and materialism. The TV news is not designed to inform or educate you. It is designed to fill you with fear, to make you feel bad, so you will buy more products. Our culture is designed to seduce people with materialism, so they will feel empty inside, and try to fill it with more products, or mindless sex, or whatever other addiction is in vogue. Women do engage in domestic violence, though feminist courts won’t believe it. So domestic violence in lesbian relationships can’t exist… except that it does. Let your feminists explain that one. They will- with their favorite tool, denial, and name-calling, because they are incapable of any kind of rational discourse. Women worked so hard to get the great jobs- now they have them, and they can’t understand why they can’t find rich men to marry- the guys who would have formerly had those great jobs aren’t in them. Whoops. Men will not get married if they don’t have stable jobs. Oh. RESPONSIBLE men won’t get married if they don’t have stable jobs. Gresham’s Law is at work again- the bad boys drove out the good. There is some TV show, that shows Baltimore’s streets, at 2 AM. They are teaming with people- unemployed men, and so on. Karen Straughn and Cassie Jaye and Suzanne Venker get it- if men aren’t treated with respect, they simply get out of circulation. Men are wiped out economically, in divorce court, kind of the way Jews were wiped out economically, in 1930’s Germany. I took the Sound of Music tour, in Austria, years ago. The tour guide clearly had some resentments in life. He talked about how much they missed the Jews, because the merchants they have now all charged high prices, the Jews were better business people, knew how to run businesses. But the Jews aren’t coming back. They know better. What the tour guide didn’t tell us is that there was a major concentration camp, not far from all those idyllic scenes. Or more recently, Robert Mugabe decided he hated white farmers, so his troops killed a few, the others got the message, and they moved out of the country. Except that the farms were the major source of income for the country. Mugabe realized he’d killed the goose that laid golden eggs, and wanted them back- but it was too late. Or Idi Amin, who decided to deport all the Indian merchants in his country. So his troops feasted, for a month… and then there were no stores. None. What rational merchant would risk going back for that? None. Or Laos, which put all its businessmen in reeducation camps, for 10 years, after the Vietnam war. Then the country’s leaders realized that if all the businessmen were in jail, there was no business, and tax income was small. SO they let them out. But businesspeople survive by being smart. They got out of Laos as fast as they could go. And they didn’t go back. A lot of men in the USA, and Britain, and Australia, and Western Europe, have been badly burned…. and they aren’t coming back. There are some older men who understand that lifetime commitment to marriage is a very good thing, with numerous rewards, but they are dying off. In another generation, they will be forgotten. I am so amused by colleges that are 60-70% female… and the women seek husbands even then. Lord, with numbers like that, I would want to play the field myself, were I of college age. Hey, you know what… us fishbicycles will let you “Lesbian Until Graduation” lasses have your Lesbian marriages instead. And now that men can be hit for child support, even for giving sperm to a sperm bank, we’ll see how far that goes. Oh, did I mention that animals that are products of sperm banks have genetic problems, and die younger, but it doesn’t matter, because they are slaughtered for food… but nobody is telling the women that they will have children with genetic problems, if they use sperm banks. God ordained marriage, between men and women, for a reason- it works. The other stuff… doesn’t work. But this is too simple for so many people. The best way to break up with women is to play the same game they play- be temperamental, shift from moment to moment, “it’s not you, it’s me”, “I’m just not the committing type”, and so on. Women hate it when men give them a dose of their own medicine. I did that with my second wife; just mirrored back her own behavior, all of her moods, all of her petty rages, all of her lack of ability to commit, or make a decision… It was actually fun. And since her vows meant nothing to her, why not? I knew I had to dump that b… Let us recall Gresham’s Law- the bad drives out the good. I see 20 year old nerds who realize they have to be bad boys to get any. Once on a path, it is hard to divert from it, and bad boys get so much, well, you know, when they actually pay you to drink the milk, why invest in a cow? A cow that is a wasting asset? If feminists actually cared about the majority of women, they would be saying exactly what I’m saying. The news media is all lies. I have a cousin who works for Concerned Women for America, and they do more for women than the NOW does- and they are larger, perhaps for that reason. The best thing we can all do, is to remove our attention from the mass media, which created all this mess in the first place. It is all lies and misinformation anyway. I am married, and I plan to stay with my wife. At her worst, she’s better than a feminist at her best. My Bible is better than the best mass media, with more truth, and better advice. Though I will say that not all American women are foolish; Hillary was weak among women, at the start of the 2016 campaign. Really think about that. The media is all lies, because they restrict themselves to the Overton window. I prefer the Bible window. Google Overton window, it’s a useful concept, you’ll understand why the media is as it is. And do read the FBI IG report, released about the time all the news media was talking about separating families at the border. You’ll understand why the news media was misdirecting people. I prefer…. and lo, I shall be with you, even unto the end of the earth…
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I think the most fascinating conversation comes from men required by courts to pay child support for children that aren’t theirs. Yes, in the USA, and Britain, if your wife has a kid that isn’t hers, you can be required to pay child support. A man who marries a woman with children can also be required to pay child support for them. I won’t say this is true in 100% of courts- I don’t know 100% of courts. I will say that this has happened, in some courts, in the USA. It is hard enough now for a single woman with children to find a husband, but once that news gets around… we’ll see. Whoever dreamed that one up, of having to pay child support for a “bad boy’s” kids, must truly hate single mothers- or have no understanding of the effects of their actions.
Bill Burr said it best- “oh, this is the line for marriage, where I can lose half my stuff, and half my income for 26 years, based on the decisions of someone who makes decisions based on feelings in the moment? Yeah, I’m in!” Well, the Communist idea was to destroy families, and it’s working. The Bible talks about hirelings, vs the faithful servant; it applies to families, also. Except hirelings are vastly more expensive…
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Feminism (third wave, at the worst) aims to dismantle God’s structure — God (male character, source of all good), Jesus (Savior, warrior), man (Jesus to the woman, the woman being the church); woman.
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If you think about it, feminism had a powerful effect. The middle class, in America, is not reproducing itself, at least not in a healthy way. We can argue all kinds of theory. But facts on the ground are facts on the ground. Look carefully at where populations are growing- China, Africa… Muslim countries. This generation of women doesn’t understand what they have created for their daughters, and sons. The road to the bad place is always paved with good intentions, which do not consider ramifications. There was a reason why religion talked about faith, and trust, and families, and morality. These work. If you google Red Pill, and MGTOW, and so on, you find that Atlas is shrugging. Marriage and children domesticate men. These harness their energies. Tucker Max is the new model for men. What is the reward for being a good guy? Nothing. Women prefer bad boys, because they think they can tame them. Except it doesn’t work. Let’s pretend it did; the women leave the now tamed guys, because they prefer bad boys. Brooke Medicine Eagle noted that a native elder [woman] told her that women control men’s behavior, by choosing to sleep with that behavior they want to see more of. What does it say, that American women prefer bad boys? I went to a church dinner, tonight. There is a woman there, who has two children. The father of her children is occupying a special place, the greystone hotel resort, run by the state. The food is bad, the clientele worse, but it’s the state’s way of recognizing the behavior of bad boys in a special way. Well, ok. She lives in a middle class culture that depends on both members of a couple working, which means her life is perhaps somewhat challenging. I remember an old Dragnet episode, where a single mom complains that she can’t find a man, willing to deal with her two children, through marriage. Detective Friday says, “A real man would.” Man-shaming at its finest. That’s great- let someone else do it. Nothing destroys trust more than seeing buddies bled out in divorce court. My father, a WW II generation guy, told me the only reason to get married was to have a stable environment to raise children in. Men can’t trust women to continue to be a part of that stable environment, any more. Divorce rates over 50%? over 70% of divorces initiated by women? What fool wants to play odds like that? I saw some young guys, early 20’s, in the street. I asked them how they would like to play a lottery where they have an over 50% chance of losing half their assets, and half their income for 26 years. They looked at me as if I was crazy. I said, “get married”. They broke up laughing. The leftists want to ridicule religion. OK. But religion is associated with a population that was able not just to replace its members, but also to expand. It is associated with human survival. The current ideology of the mass media is nihilist, at best. The Marxists always wanted to destroy the family, and their plans are working. Consider the Muslim “there is no God but God, and Muhammad is his prophet”. For the left, it is “there is no God, and Karl Marx is his prophet.” Pain is also a patient teacher.
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Sad, but true. The system works against traditional family. God help society.
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It is interesting to see that there are quite some highly college educated (whatever it’s worth) women in their 30’s who complain that they they can’t find a nice man to marry. So let me break this down. When these feminist girls are in their 20’s they are only occupied with one thing: Their career. No time for settling down and family. Of course there are plenty of good young men, but they will marry a sensible family oriented man. Now you tell me, which man in his right mind wants to marry a mid 30’s femmi who enjoyed the cock carousel for 15 years or so and now she needs a stable environment? No thanks. There are plenty of good men out there, you just didn’t (want to) see them.
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Of course there are plenty of good young men, but they will marry a sensible family oriented WOMAN!
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And while they are focused on their careers, they do not stay chaste. They choose to treat relationships as entertainment, choosing the hottest guys they can find, and deliberately avoiding marriage and commitment. The 20s are for “fun”, and they expect their future husband to accept their sexual experience and patterns of hedonism.
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Most of these women are just awful to meet nowadays as it is since they just want to sleep around with different men all the time instead of just committing to only one man which unfortunately they can’t do at all. And most women just want a very rich man since a great deal of these women are just real Gold Diggers today. The women that have their careers are the worse ones altogether since they’re very high maintenance, independent which they really don’t need a man anyway, very selfish, spoiled, greedy, picky, narcissists, Gold Diggers which i just mentioned already, really think that their S—-t doesn’t stink, very money hungry, and i can certainly add so much more to that list as well. Very horrible women out there these days unfortunately since Feminism is everywhere now thanks to these total losers, which most of these type of women are the real reason why they can’t find good men like us anymore since they’re very much to blame. It is just too very bad that we don’t have the women like the past which most of the women back then were the very complete opposite of today and Real Ladies altogether. Most women back then had hardly any money at all, and today most women have everything. Quite a change in the women of today that are such a real disaster now.
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Hi everyone, I read a number of your comments on the issue of modern women and marriage, and I agree that feminism has destroyed our society, women, and the institution of marriage as well. I am an older Christian man in my 60s and must say when I look at what is available in the way of women to marry I think I will stay single. I want to get married but I have heard women cuss worse then a sailer, act manly, have green and rainbow hair, every kind of ear ring you can think of all over their face and body, act and dress like a slut, been to bed with multiple men and women, and after they have been worn out sexually they think they are going find their perfect Prince Charming who is loaded with money, credit cards, great career, nice home, great car, and anything else to make her happy. Then when she can not find what she is wanting, she decides to blame men for not being available to her for marriage. I think if we could turn just one generation around and get rid of feminism and all they other things that have destroyed marriage, maybe then we could make marriage attractive to men again so we would want to marry again and be godly husbands to our wives. Thank you for letting me speak my mind on this subject. Have a blessed day.
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Thank you for your comment.
I don’t think our cultural institutions are producing marriage-ready women right now. I’m in my mid-late 40s now, and set to retire at 50. I think that’s the safest option for me right now.
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