Excerpt:
Despite the closeness of her relationships, Clune admitted that the hyper-emotional world of a female-to-female sexual bond was “exhausting.” “The women I went out with were by and large more inclined to be insecure and to need reassurance and I found myself in the male role of endlessly reassuring my girlfriends,” she wrote. “The subtle mood changes of everyday life would be picked over inexhaustibly.”
Clune describes how one lover was so jealous and insecure that “every single time we enjoyed a night out … we would have a row and have to leave.” “Back home, we would then spend the next four hours arguing about our relationship and my feelings of loyalty, fidelity and so on,” she wrote. “It was never-ending.”
“Can you imagine waking up beside a woman when you’ve both got raging PMT (premenstrual tension)?” she added.
Ultimately, she said, the emotional rollercoaster forced her to reconsider her lesbian plunge – something she clearly says she “chose,” and was not born into. “Unlike most men, women, of course, offer each other endless support and there’s hardly ever any lack of communication,” she said. “But – bizarre as it may seem – I found myself longing for exactly the opposite.”
Following “a calculated decision to try men again,” Clune says that she found in her future husband Richard a “quiet kindness” and “lack of neediness” that appealed to her. “I felt we were walking alongside each other rather than spending life locked in face-to-face intimacy or combat,” she wrote. “It felt natural and not at all scary. He was sanguine about my past and never suffered the insecurities I had come to expect.”
I learned a lot from reading this. I was surprised that women are this emotional. Is this true? I remember Dr. Morse said in that Acton Institute interview I posted that lesbian couples have a lot more domestic violence. Now I see why!
I actually think that it is a lot easier for Christians to make a coherent argument in favor of opposite-sex relationships and traditional marriage when they have read case studies and statistics on same-sex relationships. You need to understand the differences to say whether one is better than the other, and to include the needs of children in the comparison.
I noticed that Lex Communis linked to a Mercator Net article that summarizes some fairly recent research on same-sex couples. The author of the post is a professor, and the research he cites is published and peer-reviewed.
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WINTERY KNIGHT 
Within the gay community there is a certain contingent that acknowledges that homosexual relationships are more fluid and even state that institutions like marriage do not fit the homosexual lifestyle because it is sexually “restricting”. As such there is division among them on the same-sex marriage issue: one group believe that marriage should totally be redefined to permit open relationships within marriage – ie. No fidelity clause; the other group want to abolish marriage altogether – to eliminate the notion of discrimination.
Either way spells the end of marriage for those heterosexual couples who see it’s importance and value to themselves, their children and to society at large.
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Very interesting.
But it doesn’t take into account the needy, high maintenance male. The moody ones that also have hormonal swings, though it is testosterone, not estrogen causing the swings.
Also, keep in mind that the four different personality types are not gender based. Both men and women are well represented in all four.
Link is about the personality types if you are unaware of them. It mentions the sanguine which the gal above appreciates in her husband. His quiet kindness.
Not all women are needy.
But I would imagine that among the lesbian crowd, the percentage of needy women is much higher. I have no proof or studies. But I know people who minister to them.
One dear woman who works with the gay/lesbian community says that there is much brokeness among them. Thus I would think the is much neediness.
Anyway, that’s what I’ve heard in my very limited experiences.
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“I was surprised that women are this emotional. Is this true?”
Yes they are very emotional creatures, their hormones are very unstable, like uranium :D
But I don’t think women are needy. Their maternal instinct makes them very caring … generally speaking!
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Yeah, I actually don’t mind that they need attention, love and encouragement. What I don’t like is the lack of trust. But I think that men need to be careful to present themselves to women chaste to assuage that. And they should approach her in an respectful intellectual way – don’t mention her appearance! Try to make her talk about apologetics, economics and politics – marriage stuff.
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I was surprised that women are this emotional. Is this true?
Sometimes. Honestly, it cycles a lot more, as best I can tell. Some folks have a higher baseline. It’s sort of cool, since guys with the same personality type as a gal will express it a bit differently.
It’s like the opposite of the mental state charts– guys have more crazy-smart geniuses, but also more drooling morons, while women are more likely to be on the reasonably smart genius to clueless dumb scale.
Golly, almost like we complement each other or something, isn’t it?
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It sure is… on the one hand, you don’t want to treat a man like a girl friend. On the other hand, men should want to hear some emotional things from women in order to bond with them. My experiences with Christian apologetics women is that I’ve had to pry it out of them. The feelings, the fears, the hopes, the dreams. It’s tough – somehow they know not to overdo it.
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It’s an intimacy.
If folks are into apologetics, they’ll probably be tuned into that.
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I was surprised that women are this emotional. Is this true?
Short answer: I can’t remember where I read/heard this, but I like the analogy — men’s emotions are like a TV dinner, all separated into little compartments. Women’s emotions are like chicken pot pie, all mixed together.
Shorter answer: Yes, we are.
My experiences with Christian apologetics women is that I’ve had to pry it out of them.
Speaking only for myself, as a woman who studies apologetics, I am really guarded around men. My reasons include interest in what others are thinking, not wanting to appear flirtatious, fear of rejection, introversion, and that I’m just not much of a talker. Ironically, I usually depend on my male friends to carry the conversation.
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We all have insecurities, but men and women will feel insecure in different areas of their lives. Men are more sensitive about being considered competent. Women are more sensitive about being loved. This is of course in general.
And, like Foxfier says, a woman’s emotional state is cyclical. And a lot of it is chemical. Hormones are pretty constant for men, but for women, the cocktail of hormones changes in composition over the month. And the hormones can have a pretty significant effect. It’s a really good idea for men to read up about PMS if they want to understand women, because 85% of women experience PMS at some time in their lives. 40% of women are significantly affected by it. 8% of women have severe PMS symptoms. (These stats are from a book I’m reading on it.)
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What is this book called? What can a man do to make you feel more loved?
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Wintery asks: “I was surprised that women are this emotional. Is this true?”
Wintery, you spend every day writing feverishly about stuff that upsets you. Who’s emotional, here?
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Let it go, McS. Looking at the world this way brings them a sense of structure and comfort.
I’ll tell you what brings me comfort. Men, who even though they look at the female as the more emotional, they don’t dismiss the emotions but rather hears them and takes the emotions and what is causing the emotions seriously.
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I am having a blast right now constantly pestering my favorite young lady to tell me her emotions and feelings. I did this before with my first girl friend, but she never said anything. The second one is a lot better – she’s more willing to talk about her fears and stuff. They’re not irrational, and I feel that by listening and then pointing out my past decisions, like being chaste, it is helping her to come around to trusting me. She is trusting me a lot more and that fills my heart with joy and love. I want to be respected, and listening to her feelings and reassuring her is getting me trust, which I really desire.
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I left that post hoping you would see it as a complement. Am glad you did. McS does bring up a few good points too that I’d like to explore but have no time.
So I’ll just throw out…
I think I like that place in Ecclesiasties that says there is a time to cry and a time to refrain from crying, there is a time to embrace and a time to refrain, etc.
This is a good way to manage emotions.
What I don’t like and what I find disrespectful to both men and women is when situations arise where emotion may or may not be fine and men scold other men and call them names like ‘sissy’ and far worse. This indicates being male and emotionless is superior than being female emotional. Perhaps this is where McS is seeing the negative side.
I believe this practice has no place in the pulpit, being used by ‘hip’ preachers — ‘chickified’, ‘sissified’.
Using female terms to insult males is just plain wrong.
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“This indicates being male and emotionless is superior than being female emotional”
Being rational IS better than being emotional in so many situations.
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Right. But neither is gender specific.
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Exactly!
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We agree on something! Let’s celebrate!!
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Partay!
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I agree. But you wouldn’t know it listening to what many Bible teachers are saying.
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Sometime you can hear things when you have assumptions ;)
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…Not really doing us a lot of good on the women-can-be-reasonable front.
The only one who treats “emotional” as a slur is…well, McS. Anon compares our hormone cycles to uranium, which, remembering back to bad times, isn’t that bad of an analogy. The article being quoted implies that hyperemotional relationships are bad. (Too much of anything is bad– that’s why it’s “too much.”)
We have here a guy who says it’s important to share emotions to bond, is trying to understand how women work, what he can do to make the ladies in his life feel more loved…and y’all are being snide, rather than trying to help.
Sure seems to me that what brings you comfort is being able to bash men, since a guy who is actually doing exactly what you say you want gets dismissed out of hand.
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Thanks Foxfier. I find the process of listening to a woman’s emotions and then addressing them really interesting and engaging. It’s very mysterious. And how they respond to care and love is so addictive! It’s really really fun to see women open themselves up to being loved that way. I think if the woman doesn’t really want to grow and update her views by reading and learning, then it’s not much fun. But with the women I know, they are willing to update their views when you lead them.
First, they disagree with you and then go an an emotional rant, making unsubstantiated assertions, and blaming men, and being a victim, and so on. You have to listen to this patiently and not say anything. After a few days, you can give her things to read and watch, like a debate on gun control laws, or a lecture on the problems of evil and suffering, a policy paper on school choice, or research showing how children benefit from a stable opposite-sex marriage. Then you start pouring on the flowers and chocolates and doing tasks for her to help her to have time to take that all in. A good woman will respond to that and really start to trust you. I think the experience of having them look you in the eye and speak gently to you about how their views are changing is really appealing.
I was talking to the one I like best the other day and explaining to her that “I cannot love an alligator” by which I meant that it is impossible to imagine how a man could really bond to someone who was lacking in trust and respect for men in general, and me in particular. And she thought about it for a moment and then said “Actually, you really mean the reverse of that”. She’s getting it. You’re picking out the mother of your future children, so you really have to be willing to listen to her and work with her otherwise how will you ever be able to make her happy so she is in a good place to parent those children to be William Lane Craig and Jennifer Roback Morse? It’s an ongoing need – you can fix the major policy-oriented concerns during the courtship, but a lot of it is going to need constant attention. And that’s what a relationship is – it’s ongoing. You have to monitor your partner! Eye-contact talking for 3-4 hours a night is what we do.
Wait till you see this essay that the wife of one of my friends wrote on marriage that I’ll be posting soon. It’s amazing, and he is SOOOOO in love with her. It’s crazy how much he loves her. And when I post what she wrote about marriage, all the other men will go crazy, too. Actually, ECM recommended that I post it, and he and I are both jaded about feminists, but we loved what this woman wrote. I think her husband would die for her.
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Acutally, I was just checking in on her by text message and she is busy doing amazing good things that are very difficult, controversial and confrontational. (Much better than what I do, which is safe and obscure). I think that women who are good really do deserve and need a lot of emotional support, because being good is really hard. If I as a man want her to continue to do these difficult, draining good deeds that she does, then I have to be willing to support her in the way that is the most effective – and that means emotional support. Listening, caring, sympathizing… otherwise you will lose a valuable ally. You can’t expect a woman to do all of these good things in the face of conflict and persecution without giving her emotional support.
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I totally get your point, Foxifier. You think that because Wintery and all the other posters here were using “emotional” in the negative sense with regard to women that somehow, I was doing the same with regard to men. Yeah, I’ve got to admit that I was. And it’s to make a point.
Anyone who rants, postulates, wonders, critiques, expounds upon love, shows flares of anger, negativity, grace, kindness and vulnerability publicly on a blog seven days a week, as Wintery does, can’t be too sensitive when a blog visitor points out their blind side and double-standards. To call him “emotional” is to subject him to the same “Golden Rule” standard of scrutiny he applies to others, every day. From what I’ve seen of him over the past few months, I think he can take it.
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…No, that’s not my point at all.
Frankly, I’m not even sure where you GOT that point from, sorry.
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WK: Well, the book is by Mary Byers, but the stats in the book are actually sourced from webmd.com. There are lots of books on the subject of PMS. This one is more aimed at women.
Sounds like you’re on the right track with regard to giving your lady attention, support and listening to her.
One quibble I would have re your children is that it’s quite oppressive to start out with the assumption that they must become Craig or Morse. Those are great role models, but that’s a heavy load to put on any child. There are many ways in which your child can glorify God one day. God may have different plans to yours…
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Hey wintery, on the topic of lesbianism i read this interesting little news article in the telegraph yesterday that you might find interesting, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7883867/Late-blooming-lesbians-women-can-switch-sexualities-as-they-mature.html
That book might be worth getting and posting about.
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